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#1
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How much coolant to drain for timing cover work
Hi Folks,
After dealing with SBCs for 40 years, this is my first foray into Pontiacs and their maintenance and I have a question about the Pontiac cooling system. Background: 1970 GTO, Std 400, Auto, PS, PB, and AC. Problem: I have an oil leak from either the front of the oil pan or the crank seal - can't tell which. Well, in for a penny, in for a pound, so I ordered the Felpro 45166 timing cover gasket set. So, the manual says to drain the radiator (which I'll remove to provide more space in which to work anyway), as well as the block (something I never had to do with a SBC). Is draining the block absolutely necessary or can I skip that part? I just changed the oil and don't want to risk any contamination when I pull the water pump or timing cover. Any other pointers about timing cover removal would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Larry |
#2
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Not sure if all block have this, but my 455 had 2 small plugs at the bottom of the block on each side. Pretty easy to get to for me and drains the block almost 100%.
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#3
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Those small 1/8" pipe drain plugs above the oil pan lip on each side of the motor can be a real pain to get out, and many times when you do get them out the hole is pretty well blocked .
Just Take the lower rad hose off at the rad then with a catch can under then remove Then remove the rad cap. When it gets to just bare dribble jack up the ass end of the car until that's just a dribble, at that point put the car back down and as long as your work area is somewhat level your then golden for yanking the timing cover off!
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#4
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All blocks have the drain plugs, sometimes it is very difficult to get them out but it's the best way. If you can't get them out, completely drain the radiator, jack up the front of the car 4 inches and you won't have any coolant coming out of the front timing cover holes.
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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule. |
#5
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X2 on what Steve and AG said.
Raising the back to drain the fluid then after that, raise the front to work on the timing cover area. (need to raise front anyway to get to some of the bolts)
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
The Following User Says Thank You to johnta1 For This Useful Post: | ||
#6
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Thanks for the swift replies.
Looking at the bottom of the engine, I identified the two drain plugs - not going to mess with them if I don't have to. I'm used to the whole "jack up the back to drain / lift the front up to work" deal. It's what worked on Chevys and seems to be the ticket here too. Just wanted to be sure. Thanks again.
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Larry |
#7
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If your in there, I'd have a timing chain set on hand....just in case.
Also a good opportunity to check and set the water pump to separator plate clearance. In for a pound and a half. Last edited by STEELCITYFIREBIRD; 07-23-2020 at 04:23 PM. |
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#8
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Sorry, my version was more for when you need to yank the heads also.
__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#9
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Drain the oil. If any coolant goes into pan it's easier to wash out.If changing chain I usually shove a rag into pan under chain so anything doesnt fall into pan,like keys. I have had it happen.
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The Following User Says Thank You to sdbob For This Useful Post: | ||
#10
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If you do decide to remove the drain plugs in the block, replace them with those little brass petcocks that are used in radiators. They're the same pipe thread, and make draining coolant a lot easier next time.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Stuart For This Useful Post: | ||
#11
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X2, do it with every block I build.
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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule. |
#12
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When you remove the timing cover, it'll drain itself whether you like it or not. lol
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"Those poor souls have made the fatal mistake of surrounding us. Now we can fire in any direction" 1970 Trans Am RAIII 4 speed 1971 Trans Am 5.3 LM7 1977 Trans Am W72 Y82 1987 Grand National |
#13
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I like this idea! Adding to my to-do list...
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1966 Pontiac GTO (restoration thread) 1998 BMW 328is (track rat) 2023 Subaru Crosstrek Limited (daily) View my photos: Caught in the Wild |
#14
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You don't have to remove the timing cover to change the crank seal. Just remove center crank bolt and slip off the balancer. It should slide off easily. If not a large screw driver should pop it off. You don't need a puller like a Chevy. Try that and see if your leak is gone. If not you can always change the pan gasket later.
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#15
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If you don't have petcocks on the side (like every build should get) then just use a 2 stroke oil syringe with some hose to suck the coolant level below the opening and you're done.
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'71 Holden HQ Monaro - 3850lbs race weight, 400c/i - 11.4 @ 120 '66 Pontiac GTO - 389, 4 speed street cruiser |
#16
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I really like the idea of replacing the block plugs with petcocks - brilliant idea! The car is an older restoration and not an untouched original. Being a bit of a Garage Queen with the PO, the engines only got about 5k on a complete overhaul (have dated receipts). So I suppose there ought not to be too much trouble going that route.
I use a set of Race Ramps 12" cribs for maintenance work and had thought to "dip" the front end after draining - sort of like a actor taking a bow at the end of a performance. Then put it back up and go to work. But the petcock idea makes a lot of sense too. I'll be removing the rad and shroud for working space, so after the gasket set gets here on Tuesday, I'll get to work. And yes, if it's only the seal, I'll try replacing it on the car - no sense looking for unnecessary trouble. Thanks, Guys, for all the great ideas and advice - I appreciate it very much.
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Larry |
#17
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Quote:
Pretty sure the Firebird P-455 I did for my Father-in-Law had 1/4" pipe thread in the radiator, and 1/8" pipe thread in the block. |
#18
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Be aware that the bottom of the block usually has all the rust sediment from the whole cooling system, even if you install the petcocks, the sediment can, and does plug off that portion of the block.
One year I drained the block on my 67 GTO/clone stock car (picture in signature) before winter by removing the pipe plugs. The sediment dammed up the hole on one side stopping the rest of the water from draining out of that side of the block, unbeknownst to me. The following spring I'm getting it ready to fire up and when I crawl under it to replace the pipe plugs there's a soft plug laying on the starter that pushed out during the winter. I was extremely lucky it didn't crack the block....... The theory of draining the block through those 2 openings is great, but because they are so small, and there is a lot of sediment that accumulates right in that area, it doesn't always work out as engineered.... |
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#19
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Quote:
The amount of sediment it takes to plug those off accumulates over many years. I've installed petcocks on numerous engines of mine over the years and they still run free on the oldest engine I still have (from 2007). Every single factory plug I've removed has had a ton of debris in them though, it does require cleaning if you do that. |
#20
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Petcocks don't work on filled blocks like mine lol.
My aluminum rad doesn't even have a drain so I just use a siphon hose through the rad cap opening to the bottom of the rad. Achieves the same thing as pulling the lower hose but without the mess. |
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