[Sirrotica]

For the "I could never hide a by pass filter", crowd, I just went out and measured mine. It's just about the size of a one gallon can of paint, not really, I lied......

It's 4 inches in diameter, and 5 1/2 inches tall, with 2, 1/4 inch I.D. lines going to, and from it. I can see why no one could possibly hide one........LOL

I have no idea of how big the opponents think one is, but that's the measurements I just took. In comparison an AC PF 24 is 3.77 inches in diameter, and 4.21 inches tall. To summarize, it's 1/4 inch larger in diameter, and an 1 1/4 inches longer than a stock Pontiac PF24 oil filter.

BTW, I do run one on my 05 GTO, so for the notion that you just have to have an 18 wheeler to run one, not so. I don't have to mount it in a trailer to haul it behind me either............... It's nestled below the master cylinder, between the inner fender, and the left exhaust manifold. If I wanted to hide it, it would be under the front bumper, but that would defeat the ease of changing the media from the top, and not having to raise the car up.

Adding up to 8 times the engine longevity is well worth the effort of a proper filter on anything plus I don't have to crawl under the car to change oil constantly either. I can safely run my oil for years, just putting in a new roll of TP in every year or two. Last time I priced a roll of TP, under a buck even after covid jacked the price of toilet tissue up. It saves me money, time, and I don't have waste oil sitting in gallon jugs to dispose of. Another bonus, virtually zero engine wear, compared to a conventional filter.

Since we quit drilling for oil here, the price of oil has doubled over what it was a few years ago. I buy very little oil for my vehicles that have a by pass oil filter on, and though I do own 3 diesel trucks, they only are dually's, no 18 wheelers in my stable....

The Franz by pass filter is also used as an auxiliary transmission filter by some people, and a diesel fuel filter to remove sub 10 micron particulate that will trash an injection pump in a flash. Generac now includes them in all their units currently, gas, propane, or diesel to help with engine longevity. If anything sits longer than a hobby car without constant running, it's probably an emergency genset.

One other thing is, moisture tends to accumulate in engines that get run infrequently, (hobby cars, gensets). The Frantz, because the media is cellulose, will absorb up to 6 ounces of water, and hold onto it until the oil reaches a high enough temperature to vaporize the moisture to steam, or the media is changed, and it gets tossed.


FRANTZ FILTER ON 396 CHEVY, I BELEIVE ITS A CHEVLLE



On racing, the early Baja 1000 VW based buggies were not able to finish races due to the fine dust ingested during the race because VW only used a mesh screen in the crankcase for filtering oil. Enter the use of Frantz by pass filters, and the engine longevity was increased so they could complete the race. Probably about the furthest use from an 18 wheel diesel you could come up with.

That probably ruins the theory that only OTR 18 wheel tractor trailer diesels can benefit from them.........

I really don't care one way or the other if anyone on this board uses a by pass filter, or not, but the facts about them is what seems to get distorted from reality. They may not be for everyone, and I'm perfectly fine with that. I only wish I had tried them back in the early 70s when I first saw one demonstrated to me. It would have saved me some engines, money, and time. As the Amish say, "Old too soon, smart too late."

[Formulajones]

Um yeah, I don't want to stare at that sticking up in the engine compartment
LOL

It's an accessory that's not originally on a classic vehicle, so it'll look out of place if not hidden. Not something I'd be able to talk the next guy into that comes in here with a 6 figure car. It's not so much that I couldn't hide it, it's more of a question of who wants it on some of these high dollar cars where appearance is just as important, and not driven enough anyway.

For that to work, it literally has to be completely out of site, lines and all. I'm not apposed to doing that, I just haven't found the need for me personally, and have found very few others that even care enough to go through the effort.

Maybe they need to design something a little less intrusive or....??

Probably the reason I don't see this stuff marketed towards the classic car world, there just wouldn't be enough interest in it's current state.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by track73

A long time ago I read where toilet paper filters did too good of a job and took out a lot of the additives in the oil along with the dirt.

This is another case of misinformation, additives bond to the oil molecules they are not filtered out, but actually extends the additives life longer by the absence of fine matter being removed in the oil that a conventional filter can't remove.

Instead of listening to opinions on the net, educate yourself about by pass filters, that's what I did. I know of no downside of the product whatsoever.

Link to how by pass filters work: https://www.machinerylubrication.com...ass-filtration

Blackstone labs, which FJ has referred to in his posts for oil analyzation, is a proponent of by pass filters in any and all engines. If you're attempting to run extended oil change intervals, a by pass filter will allow you to run many times over the manufacturers recommendations safely.

Of course the recommendation he makes to have engine oil analyzed for anything you want to know about the engines health, and the oils life is needed for a program other than stock engines following manufacturers recommendations.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Um yeah, I don't want to stare at that sticking up in the engine compartment
LOL

It's an accessory that's not originally on a classic vehicle, so it'll look out of place if not hidden. Not something I'd be able to talk the next guy into that comes in here with a 6 figure car. It's not so much that I couldn't hide it, it's more of a question of who wants it on some of these high dollar cars where appearance is just as important, and not driven enough anyway.

For that to work, it literally has to be completely out of site, lines and all. I'm not apposed to doing that, I just haven't found the need for me personally, and have found very few others that even care enough to go through the effort.

Maybe they need to design something a little less intrusive or....??

Probably the reason I don't see this stuff marketed towards the classic car world, there just wouldn't be enough interest in it's current state.

If you want to talk about day two equipment, there were a few original owners that did install them in musclecars. I would have, if I wasn't so resistive to using a by pass oil filter back in the 70s....Yes, I too didn't use them then, didn't believe it would make a difference.

I know what type of cars you work on, and no they weren't offered. The only exception was on the 4 cyl 194 Tempests, Pontiac had a provision that eliminated the oil filter with a block off plate so that the owner could use a aftermarket by pass filter. Pontiac didn't install the filter, they just made the provision for the owner to install the by pass filter of their choice, and only on 194 engines, although the block off plate will fit Pontiac Stratostreak V8s.

Being the media has to be about the size of a roll of TP, (4 X 41/2) the current size is about as compact as it can be. For a brief time Frantz made one that would accept a half roll, but they had to be cut in half for the smaller unit.

On the Rat Rod circuit, many guys seek out the old Frantz units to install.

[Tom Vaught]

Diesel Oil fits my vehicle/engine rpm usage as even at maximum final drive engine rpm
7000 rpm I would be running over 200 mph at a location like the Bonneville Salt Flats.
At normal safe highway speeds 75 mph I would be less than 2600 engine rpm.

So Diesel Oil fits my application perfectly vs Racing Oils (and no need for By-pass oil
filtration systems) as the vehicle mileage per year would not justify changing the oil
in the vehicle each year. I might see 1000 miles on the vehicle in a years time.

Engineers do stuff for reasons. And they take the advice of other Engineers in the field.

Tom V.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

If you want to talk about day two equipment, there were a few original owners that did install them in musclecars. I would have, if I wasn't so resistive to using a by pass oil filter back in the 70s....Yes, I too didn't use them then, didn't believe it would make a difference.

I know what type of cars you work on, and no they weren't offered. The only exception was on the 4 cyl 194 Tempests, Pontiac had a provision that eliminated the oil filter with a block off plate so that the owner could use a aftermarket by pass filter. Pontiac didn't install the filter, they just made the provision for the owner to install the by pass filter of their choice, and only on 194 engines, although the block off plate will fit Pontiac Stratostreak V8s.

Being the media has to be about the size of a roll of TP, (4 X 41/2) the current size is about as compact as it can be. For a brief time Frantz made one that would accept a half roll, but they had to be cut in half for the smaller unit.

On the Rat Rod circuit, many guys seek out the old Frantz units to install.

I absolutely do like the vintage stuff, and day 2 speed parts are cool. I could see the old Frantz unit on a Rat Rod.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Shiny

....... found it interesting but less than definitive. ...

I feel that way about every single oil article or discussion thread I have ever read.

My general 2 cents.

The standard oils, both diesel and gasoline tend to seem to

A. Change their blends all the time. Ive heard that newer diesel oils dont have the ZDDP in them that the used to.

B. More importantly they are not very forthcoming with some of that secret sauce information.

So you have do do a bunch of tiresome research or try to find someone who has posted real life oil data from blackstone of something on that oil. My point mostly being that just because Rotella was a good choice 20 years ago, that doesnt mean it is or isnt now. Im mostly just not willing to put in the leg work to make sure it is in an engine I care about.

Meanwhile, the boutique companies that make purpose built oil are very open about their additives. At least the parts consumers care about.

So for the most part in engines I care about I use stuff made for them. My 911 gets a Porsche classic branded oil. My Pontiac has a roller cam so it matters less, but I still use an oil with some increased additives for older engines.

I have a clapped 305 in my gasser project so it will move, it has Rotella T4 in it because its cheap. My willys Mb that has an 80 year old engine at maybe 5:1 compression gets the same. I dont think either of those engines have enough valve spring pressure to wipe a cam anyway.

[Tom Vaught]

Mark Schottler, (a Kansas Pontiac Enthusiast who posted on the board in the old days) has, (the last time I talked to him), over 350,000 miles on his 7.3L diesel engine and has only changed a couple of glow plugs in the history of that vehicle with NORMAL oil changes for his vehicle. They stopped making that engine around 2004. It is one of the most sought after diesel engines. And he has used 15w40 oil in that engine for its entire life. The combustion chamber is a open chamber vs the old style diesel chambers. (Like a Pontiac engine's open chamber).

No "add on parts" to "clean" the oil so he must be doing something right.
Basic 15w40 diesel oil as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

Tom V.

[421mike]

News flash, toilet paper rolls have just shrunk to 3.8 inches in height, just wondering how those will work in the Franz bypass filters designed for 4 inch filters. Also I have a f04d 7.3 diesel with well over 150 thousand mile on it and the service mechanic said I will probably wear out the rest of the truck before the engine goes. Noisy though compared to the newer diesels.

[Sirrotica]

Since the oil runs end to end it will just have more space in the top of the cannister. When originally designed the rolls were 4 1/4 inches wide, then went to 4 inches.

They also have enlarged the cardboard rolls when they do shrinkflation requiring a spacer tube to take up the extra space on the inside.

[P@blo]

The Franz hounds have been released

Big old Pontiac runing big old heavy parts will be fine running HD diesel EO (CI-4) We are splitting arse hairs here where the TP should be.

[Jay S]

FWIW, in you want to compare some extreme examples for 15w40 diesel oils, to a street driven Pontiac, it is used for some pretty high powered pulling tractors running out there. Most engines running in a popular pulling class called Super Farm run either 15w-40 Rotella, John Deere, or Dello in their single turbo 466 cid pulling tractors. The 5.9 Cummins like what is popular in Dodge pickups pull in that class also. That class runs about 1200HP and just over 2200 lbs of tq, they are limited to 3000 RPM, 70 to 80 lbs of boost with a single turbo.

I know of some tractors in the higher HP classes turning more RPM’s, with bigger turbos that are around 2000HP still on 15w40. They dump so much diesel fuel in that the oil is diluted by diesel after a weekend of pulling and they must change it after a hand full of pulls. Most of those guys stay with 15w40 because they have to change the oil so frequently, and the racing oil gets really pricy and doesn’t seem to help anything survive much longer. The Diesel’s above 2000+ HP, and most all the Alky classes (not enough heat for multi grades), generally switch to a single grade 50 or 60 weight to keep the bearings alive. I have never heard concerns from any of those guys about getting the oil aerated. The higher HP classes have dry sumps though.

My dad has a NA 7.3 with 450,000+ on it in a 4x4 pickup, untouched except for glow plugs and a water pump, admittedly it is getting pretty tired though. 15w40 most all it’s life. The N14 Cummins in our 379 Peterbilt has about 1.3 million miles, one inframe OH about 500k ago. I know of some later Caterpillar engines in trucks (back when they made truck engines yet) that go well beyond that untouched. These days the engine design really effects the life of the engine more than the oil does.

[Tom Vaught]

Thanks Jay S for the info on your dad's 450,000 + mile engine with a history of running
15W40 "diesel" oil.

Tom V.

[64speed]

Anyone using Rotella T1

[TxSportCoupe]

Built my rotations assembly in 1986. Balanced .030 over flat tappet 406 on 77 bearings with TRW flattops. It’s had thousands of 6500 RPM passes, tens of thousands of hard miles in the West Texas heat and still starts up on 60 psi of pressure and runs like a top. I don’t know what’s in it or how the formula has changed over the decades but it’s only ever has Valvoline Rqcing 20W-50 in it. I can still see cross hatch in the cylinders 36 years later. Whatever the “magic” is, it works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dataway]

Call me crazy, but I'm far more concerned with the next time I'll be sipping wine with my wife in a cafe in Paris than I am with whether I'll get 250k miles on an engine rather than 200k miles. Heck, I've never driven a single vehicle more than 120k miles in my life, and at 64 I'm unlikely to have time left to drive anything that far

Turn down the oil knob and turn up the life knob

[78w72]

what i find comical, is the guy beating the dead horse of bypass filters bragging about how many miles his vehicles get because of them, 325k being the highest miles... plenty of cars from all makes do that with ease on normal filters. how is that possible if all this alleged major engine damage is occurring from using normal filters? these oil threads continue to go off track & turn into "your ruining your engine if you dont use a bypass filter"... on your classic car... using 4-6 feet of rubber lines & a canister & fittings.

heres just one example of many, a tacoma with over 1 million miles & still running... on a normal spin on filter! 1 million miles! & plenty of others at 300-500k. 250k miles on an engine is what most toyota owners call "broken in", 4th gen 4runners & tacomas sell for $10-15k still with 250k miles on them doing the factory recommended 5000-7500k mile oil changes because people know they will easily last another 250k miles or more.

bypass filters are great but they have their place in OTR trucks & fleet vehicles that do millions of miles & to save the companies on cost of oil... for the vast majority of modern or classic cars they are simply not needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL7fyyUNRmA

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...on+mile+toyota

[64speed]

Again what about Rotella 1

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Again what about Rotella 1

We have an oil change today that is getting a SAE 30 product similar to that T1 Rotella. Most our stuff has to start up in cold weather. We generally use 15w40 semi-synthetic. For super cold stuff we like to run full synthetics on Diesels. Older gas engines, we stay with semi-synthetic and drop to a lower viscosity for cold weather. We run Citgo Mystic JT-8, 15w40 and 15w50 most of the time. My Dad runs T4 or T1 Rotella in most his stuff, like the 450K mile 7.3 Ford pickup…You should hear our heated oil discussions... LOL…I am joking of course.

If your south in a warmer climate you could run a straight 30. JMHO, I would prefer a straight 30 over a 10w30 in a warmer climate with a flat tappet cam, likely slightly better cold start protection on the cam. I prefer 40-50 wt on anything flat tappet in a warmer climate.

Here is a Blackstone test for T1 Rotella. Like I mentioned early on in this thread, they generally dropped the zinc levels on most Deisel oils. Mr Speed is a couple years behind in the article on that. If you are not testing your oil regularly you may be surprised that zinc is lower than advertised. See the test, zinc is starting out at about 900 on T1. Zinc gets depleted with use some also, so it will never be higher than that. The other additives like Phos make up some of the difference. Phos has been higher in oil tests the last couple years.

[grandam1979]

I’m at 378,000+ with my ram just putting mopar filters on it. Changing your oil on a regular schedule is going to do more for your engine than anything. With that said now they recommend changes every 8000 miles that’s never going to happen 3-5000 at the most but I usually shoot for just over 3000.