[OG68]

Originally Posted by Stuart

My graduation present when I got out of high school was a suitcase. I got the message.

My dad took me down to the Navy recruiter on my 18th birthday. I was gone within a few weeks of my high school graduation.

[71GP76TA]

The day they turn 18.

[Cliff R]

Very few families are immune from this problem. The topic comes up and no matter what group your in nearly every family in that group has at least one child, brother, sister or close friend/relative with these issues. To me it's WORSE than the current COVID pandemic. I know eventually we'll put COVID in the rear view mirror and it will leave it's mark in modern history, and this other deal will still be with us............

[71GP76TA]

My parents probably enabled me to a point... More my mom than my dad. My dad wanted to kick me out when I was 18. My parents are still married.. I'm an only child. When I was 32 I was a strung out loser sleeping in my car... when I slept. Went from that to sleeping on my parents patio until I got a job. That was my rock bottom. Life was a roller coaster when I was in my 20's.. on and off drugs.. I usually worked.. had my own place. If I screwed that off.. I'd move back in with mommy and daddy.. I always had a car.. usually something cool. I started doing drugs when I was 16-17. I dropped out of high school. My parents gave me a choice.. go to school.. get a job.. or get out.. I got a job at Burger King when I was 16. After 18 I worked at several tire stores 1st as a tire buster .. then a salesman. I got my **** together when I was 32.. I am now 53 and have a very successful automotive business that I built from nothing. ... Enough of the soapbox..

[einstein]

Originally Posted by 68WarDog

We have 4 kids. 2 girls and 2 boys. All have left home and established some impressive lives for themselves, except the youngest boy,. He's 28, turns 29 next month, but has convinced the wife he still " haven't found himself ". I really don't know what that mean. He's been out of college for about 7 years, and putting him out of the house isn't an option the wife wants to hear. When is it time to force a child out of the house ?

When youngest turned 18, we moved 1200 miles away, let him take care of house, pool, yard, lakefront and utility Bill's until house was converted to rental. No empty nest for us, made a better man of him. He's married, homeowner, 3 kids, partly homeschooled.

Tell him you're selling and moving to one bedroom condo.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Stuart, please be lenient on my following words....
Some of you might have figured out I am a steadfast Christian Believer, no ifs, and's or buts..
THe small church I go to in Yukon Oklahoma has been a spiritual revelation to me. The truth of the God's word is delivered there, every time the doors are opened. NOT making judgement on anyone's church. Please just read on...
There are treatment plans of all kinds. I got laughed at for suggesting a certain "place" to go to, Christian based. Member here said religion won't help that deal......he WAS correct, and I did NOT argue the point, at that time. The words of the Holy Bible are words from God, himself, 40 Men wrote those words over a period of 1600 years. If God is inappropriately used to help someone, or spread his message (God's) THAT is called religion...

There was a branch of an organization called, Teen Challenge (It's not just for teens, it has men's and women's programs)in Oklahoma City, it was moved to Stillwater, Oklahoma...
My church ministered and donated $$$ to this organization when they were in Okla City. THey even had their members come to our small church a couple of times. The last time was like 4 years ago, just before Christmas. This was a men's group, about 35 of them. THey came to our Sunday church service, and even sang a couple of Christmas songs for us.

If you have doubts about how God works...We have had numerous folks give $$$ to our church that have NEVER been in the door. This particular Christmas, there was an envelope slid under the front door for $4000.00. Sounds crazy but it happens 4-5 times a year...
My church has a HUGE heart for those without Christ, and those in need.....

My awesome pastor goes and gets 35 $100.00 Walmart gift cards for these Teen Challenge men.

When a man/woman commits to the Teen Challenge commitment, they commit 1 entire year of their life. They get no breaks, weekends off, nothing!!! (absolutely NO chances to fall back...)They work at menial things to help pay for their stay. When they are not working they get God's teachings. When they are not working or learning, they get to sleep a little...

The gift cards they got were unexpected miracle gifts, they NEVER get. These men have ALL used up ALL of their favors from family and friends. Most of them no longer have a loved one, of any kind, for any reason....

Seeing this group of men at church was pretty underwhelming. THey all had decent clothes on, nothing dirty or shaggy at all....They looked like a group of men from ANY crowd, anywhere, any time. They all looked SO ordinary, like anyone....BUT they were at the end of their ropes. Someone they knew (or a judge) steered them in the direction of this organization.

Did I mention their failure rate is nearly zero....

There are Teen Challenge organizations in nearly every state.

If you know of a person in this state of hopelessness, CALL TEEN CHALLENGE!!! They obviously ARE NOT working a job or able to do ANYthing to contribute to society or their families.

There's also an organization in Donaldson, Arkansas, same deal thefathershousemenistry.com

THere's 2 teen challenges in Ohio

Perry, Ohio 440-259-3333

Youngstown 330-743-9030

Thanks You, Lord!!!

[Cliff R]

Make no mistake about it, there are PLENTY of organizations and programs out there to help people in need. The problem I've seen is that the person has to want to be helped.

I just retired from 16 years with the County here as Chief CSI, many of you may not know this. Yes, I've been doing homicide, suicide, fatal motor vehicle accident, and drug overdose investigations for them since right after i retired the first time back in 2003.

I get to see how things end up and the end of the long journey. I get to talk to the families who are left behind wondering what they did wrong, or if there was anything else they could have done? Every story I hear with drug overdoses and many who commit suicide after years of being at the bottom of the barrel are similar if not exactly the same. They tell me that their loved one just never could figure it out, and struggled with addiction for many years.

Often I hear that they were getting their life in order, had been clean" for a while and just got and were getting a new job, just about ready to get custody of their son or daughter, etc, etc. Sometimes I'm holding the preliminary blood test in my hand (if they made it to the ER) and seeing where they tested positive for some sort of opioid or illegal narcotic....I say nothing about it. So the families all have hope but were unable to help because their loved one simply couldn't figure it out in time.

You can actually tell by talking to many of them as crazy as this sounds but they seem somewhat relieved as the long battle and suffering is finally over.........FWIW.......

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

My parents probably enabled me to a point... More my mom than my dad. My dad wanted to kick me out when I was 18. My parents are still married.. I'm an only child. When I was 32 I was a strung out loser sleeping in my car... when I slept. Went from that to sleeping on my parents patio until I got a job. That was my rock bottom. Life was a roller coaster when I was in my 20's.. on and off drugs.. I usually worked.. had my own place. If I screwed that off.. I'd move back in with mommy and daddy.. I always had a car.. usually something cool. I started doing drugs when I was 16-17. I dropped out of high school. My parents gave me a choice.. go to school.. get a job.. or get out.. I got a job at Burger King when I was 16. After 18 I worked at several tire stores 1st as a tire buster .. then a salesman. I got my **** together when I was 32.. I am now 53 and have a very successful automotive business that I built from nothing. ... Enough of the soapbox..

When I bought this farmhouse with 4 acres this past year, the whole interior of the house needed painting badly. My wife hired a painter to do it so it would get done timely. Yes, I can paint, but one person can only do so much, and I nave plenty of other stuff to fix and remodel without trying to take on the painting too.

I spent a lot of time here while the painter and his crew were working for just over a week. I of course got to talk to the owner and his crew quite a bit. The owner is a recovered alcoholic (many painters I've known in the past are). He hires all drug, and alcohol recovering laborer's to work for him. He of course has some that relapse, and he can spot a relapse from a mile away having been in their place.

He wants to give them a chance, same as someone else did for him at one time. He pays them $100 a day in cash, provides them with lunch, and he has an oversize van he picks them up in each day, because many have no drivers license, due to their addictions. If they screw up, they lose their job. It happened to one guy while they were here working. It's a good program, and he's trying to repay the generosity that he got from an employer long ago.

As Cliff, and others have said, the person has to want to do it, no one can do it because someone else wants them to. It has to be their decision, else they just fall back into the same patterns.

I did get to ask the owner why he finally got clean, he said he was a high functioning alcoholic, went to work, but finally got tired of hangovers, lying, lost his first wife over it, no one wanted to have anything to do with him, so HE decided to stop drinking. Religion, and God was also involved in his recovery.

Any person I've known that has recovered, usually God plays a role, and they have to want to do it, no one can force them too.

I once had a guy that worked for me when I owned my garage and service station that I found out as an alcoholic, unbeknownst to me when I hired him. He was a fantastic mechanic, young, hard working, but when he would relapse he would leave his family and go on a bender for a week or two. draw every bit of money out of his bank account, and drink until he ran out of money, very sad. I gave him 3 chances, had him go into counseling but 3 strikes and you're out with me.

A few years later he started going to AA meetings, and finally kicked his habit. He actually came to where I was working, and apologized to me for screwing up, and thanked me for giving him a chance to straighten out. Part of the AA program is to apologize to every person that you have wronged.

[bird72]

I get the tough love necessary at times thing. My only ask for you people in that decision position is this. Think long and hard about what you decide. I would give a million bucks to be struggling with my two sons here on earth. Rather than them in heaven and living with memories, regrets, and confusion why I am here and not them.

[Formulabruce]

My wife "Was" and enabler. I had to threaten Divorce, and mean it. Been a bit rocky, but 150% better than it was.
.. Still married, she chose "us" over a adult child that needed to grow up.
That said; and in response to this subject, I feel, and think that Covid crap has made it easier for so many at ANY age to become 'Victims".
Covid is the excuse I will NOT accept again for lack of motivation.
Purpose of a parent is to get the offspring to take care of themselves in its simplest form. Nature is Full of these examples.
If God didnt give us a "will", we would have to rely on instinct, like every other animal on earth does.
Limiting a wayward child's choices makes them angry, but forces instinct on them.
Sadly the Govt really wants and promotes dependents.
Obviousy words are much easier to say than actions needed in the variety of problems.

[72GTOMN]

As a casual observer I would suggest there are some serious societal problems that contribute to these issues. My apologies if what I say is controversial and I don't intend to sound sexist, but it should be noted that most often it's men who run into these issues. When there is an undercurrent in society that men are disposable, sacrificial providers it has an effect. When a man finds themselves in a place where they are unable or unwilling to fit the role society expects of them, sometimes they just give up.

[Formulabruce]

/\ /\ Well said!

[Shiny]

OP did not allude to it, but many other posters have brought up drugs and alcohol.

I don't want to be a public service announcement on a Pontiac forum but I encourage anyone that thinks a drug or alcohol problem is a choice to seek medical help before assuming.

Mental illnesses often surface in late teens and are commonly "self-medicated", especially in men. Expecting anyone with an illness to have the ability to make good decisions is foolish. Saying "they need to want help" is true but those with severe illnesses may simply be incapable of it. Expecting someone who has no insight into their own illness to seek treatment can be unrealistic.

Unfortunately, even knowing someone has a mental illness does not allow a parent nor the courts to easily force them into treatment. The resources are too scarce and the "freedom to be ill" is often the law. Unless someone is threatening suicide or harm to others, it is difficult for the courts to hold them longer than 72 hrs. This may be enough time to get them sober or off drugs but not even close to what it takes to diagnose an illness, let alone treat it effectively.

The result is jails filled with people that need to be in psych hospitals that don't exist and streets filled with people who are gravely disabled and incapable of taking care of themselves. Lots of sad endings.

If there is any question at all, find a local chapter of NAMI, seek help for yourself and family, get educated, and be cautious about assuming others are capable of making a change.

[arbys]

The real question may be what was done before they turned 18. I know that it may seem heartless at times but I feel that discipline and guidance given prepared them life. It was shakey for them at first but well worth the effort.

[71GP76TA]

People won't straighten up unless they want to. Question is... are you willing to live and deal with them.?? At the end of the day... they only have to live with themselves...

[jciwolf]

My youngest son was 32 before it got to a mild argument that ended with him his girlfriend and their daughter (2yr old) before they finally moved out. Some kids mature slowly and I mean slowly, but the nerves get a little raw before they get it.

[1969400HO]

If they want to act like a needy 7 yr old treat him her like one and the soul might quit acting like one and decide to leave . TONS of opportunity outside mommies apron!!!

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by arbys

The real question may be what was done before they turned 18. I know that it may seem heartless at times but I feel that discipline and guidance given prepared them life. It was shakey for them at first but well worth the effort.

Ross, well stated. My uncles and aunts told my parents that you couldn't raise children the way we were raised. Kids had to be "kids". Well, we were allowed to be children, but we all had responsibilities. Our responsibilities came BEFORE anything else. Dad had a simple ethos: "My house, my rules. If you live in my house you will contribute to the upkeep of the house, the family and you will attend church regularly." That is WHY I learned to perform the same tasks as my sisters did (cooking, cleaning, laundry) AND all the tasks that my dad performed(auto and home maintenance). Both Mom and Dad had ONE rule once you graduated high school: get a job, go to college (while working in the summers like my middle sister did) or go into the military. None of us were allowed time to "find" ourselves. Dad had a unique way of assisting you in "finding" yourself: a 10EEE in your backside. Shortly before she passed away, I took my Aunt Nina out to lunch. Half way through lunch, she looked into my eyes and said: "Steve, I didn't agree with the way your parents raised you and your sisters, but I certainly agree with the results. You're a good man". Nina was always my favorite maternal aunt. Hearing her say "You're a good man" brought a tear to my eye. If you want kids to amount to something you have to start when they are small and instill the characteristics you desire. Even then, there is no guarantee that they will follow these once they are adults. Friends of mine raised their kids to be responsible: two of the kids are great, one committed suicide to keep from going to prison and the youngest has been out of prison, "clean and sober", for three years. Once children are adults there is little you can do the change their trajectory.

[JJake]

Similar situation. My son Matt, a top math and science student, couldn’t focus on anything but having fun. Two stints at college that he didn’t attend, low skill jobs for spending money. Finally at 26 he saw the light and started attending college for engineering. Died in an accident on the way to school 22 years ago tomorrow 3/3/22. I would give everything for just one more hour with him. Count your blessings even though you don’t recognize them.

[jciwolf]

I am truly sorry about your son. I couldn’t imagine that. I’m lucky now, my son is a mechanic at an auto shop and loves what he’s doing and has started bringing himself and his family over for dinners and just plain visiting. Always loved him but life seems to get in the way sometimes!