[gtorich]

Ok, this far now, wanted to check with you guys before I screw something up ………..been grinding down the weld, need a little more off the top...…….hard to get into there without smaking the body mount...……….was using 60 grit, then hit it with the wire brush...…….

Question is, do I fill these holes/dents up with something, or just keep sanding them, seems if I go that far, its gonna get even thinner than it is now...…….

Now im assuming the metal has to be clean on the top & bottom where the weld goes, so do I go to say 120 grit...……….when done do I spray anything on it to prevent rust, don't know when I can get someone over to weld this thing.

Speaking of welds...……… could I just drill a hole in the frame and attach the new piece with nuts and bolts...………..this way I don't have to worry about a weld breaking and going thru this whole process again.

Any help would be great here.

Rich

[gtorich]

Last pic

[Sirrotica]

In the end it's your choice as it's your car, if it were mine I'd weld it from the get go. The part you're working on really isn't highly stressed as evidenced by the thin gauge metal used.

You can bolt and nut it together, but a proper weld will be as strong as the surrounding metal. The only way a weld will be weak is if it isn't done properly. Gauging weld strength from the bubble gum factory welds isn't a good indicator. Factory frame welds are some of the worst production welds on any welded structures.

[gtorich]

Hey Brad, thanks for the tip, think I"ll get it welded...…...do I need to grind away some more at those joints to make it cleaner, and do I need to put anything on like that weld primer spray...…….still gotta find a guy with a portable welder to come over and do this job...….………...no big deal, but what would be a fair price to have this done "Ball park" is good enough.

Rich

[Sirrotica]

Chances are anyone that has a portable rig is going to grind and fit the parts the way they want it before they weld it. I wouldn't sweat prepping it for someone that does welding for a living, they're used to doing this stuff.

I would say somewhere between $50-$100 when someone has to travel to your site depending upon how far they travel, what part of the country it is being done at. Most people don't have any idea of what overhead costs are to run a portable rig, and plus cost of insurance, etc. The actual welding isn't going to take even a half hour to do, but travel and overhead all figure into the cost. If you have an idea of what a wrecker service call is in your part of the country I would say it would be comparable in price.

I'd Primer it with Rustoleum primer spray bomb, and follow up with Rustoleum Black, either gloss or flat depending on your preference. Of course there are specialty coatings, like POR 15 and others, but just to keep it from scaling Rustoleum works well in applications like this. Don't paint anything until the welder is finished, he won't have to clean off paint, and new paint won't get burnt off.


Good luck...………..

[Judas]

I am not a big fan of Rustoleum, but if it was just temp coating for now, I would grab a can and throw it on without hesitation. I have a few cans around just for this purpose.

[dataway]

Typically on work like that I'll cut the metal back, if possible, to some point where there is solid, relatively rust free metal. Then clean that back about 1/2" from where the weld joint will be. Pitted metal is tough, has to be very, very clean to weld decently.

But yeah, like Sirrotica said ... most of the time I would want to decide where I'm going to make the weld joint and how it will be prepared ... would be a shame to do a bunch of prep work that the welder just cuts off before welding.

The exception is totally rusted junk ... I get more people asking me to come over and weld up braces or something on their 20 year old pickup with the bed falling off ... not a chance. Or their mower deck that broke in half and is still covered in 1" thick rotting grass etc. Your project looks very clean in comparison.

[dataway]

What is that? Back by the trunk? Looking to weld on a extension to mount the bumper?

Fit up is what the welder will be concerned about ... I would need relatively straight edges that I could match up to whatever is going to be welded onto the frame. So after some very careful measuring and matching up locations I'd use a cut off wheel and cut some relatively straight edges on the frame, try to clamp on, or in some way mark the piece that gets welded on and cut to match the cut in the frame, clean them both up, clamp in place, start welding.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by dataway

What is that? Back by the trunk? Looking to weld on a extension to mount the bumper?

Fit up is what the welder will be concerned about ... I would need relatively straight edges that I could match up to whatever is going to be welded onto the frame. So after some very careful measuring and matching up locations I'd use a cut off wheel and cut some relatively straight edges on the frame, try to clamp on, or in some way mark the piece that gets welded on and cut to match the cut in the frame, clean them both up, clamp in place, start welding.

This^^^exactly what I would do..

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by dataway

Typically on work like that I'll cut the metal back, if possible, to some point where there is solid, relatively rust free metal. Then clean that back about 1/2" from where the weld joint will be. Pitted metal is tough, has to be very, very clean to weld decently.

But yeah, like Sirrotica said ... most of the time I would want to decide where I'm going to make the weld joint and how it will be prepared ... would be a shame to do a bunch of prep work that the welder just cuts off before welding.

The exception is totally rusted junk ... I get more people asking me to come over and weld up braces or something on their 20 year old pickup with the bed falling off ... not a chance. Or their mower deck that broke in half and is still covered in 1" thick rotting grass etc. Your project looks very clean in comparison.

Oh boy, this looks like its turning into a real project...…….don't think we can cut anything back any, on top, your only about a 1 1/2 to the body mount.

On the piece that came off, it was welded on the top about a 1" across, bottom looked a little smaller.

You can see on that one pic, its close to the body mount...…….the other thing I was wondering, I understand the metal has to be clean, but I was thinking on the top and bottom of the frame...……….does the inside of the frame have to be clean also...….

Heres a pic of the part that is going on.

Cant thank you guys enough for helping me out here.

Rich

[dataway]

Clean on the inside would certainly be a bonus, but probably not absolutely necessary, just wire brush the inside as well as you can.

Is that a factory weld that has broken or rusted through, or some previous repair weld?

Without seeing how the new part fits up, how much metal, if any, is missing ... kind of hard to explain a step by step. BUT ... it looks perfectly repairable without getting into the body mount, so I wouldn't worry about that.

My body and chassis are still apart so I look at mine tonight and see how that piece is welded on from the factory.

[Sirrotica]

More than likely a welder that is portable is going to be a stick welder, MIG welding is much more sensitive to having everything clean. With stick welding the person doing the welding has the choice to use 6011 rod, which will penetrate through rust and most any contaminant and still produce a fine weld. Not to say that you should try to weld on metal without attempting to clean off as much crud as possible, but it will weld through contamination as that's what it was designed to do.

For many years I didn't own a MIG welder and used a stick or oxy acetylene torch to weld everything. I've now owned a MIG for 20 years and as with anything there are good and bad features to each process, stick is pretty versatile, and is used almost extensively by portable welders, most likely what your going to have used on your job.

If I were you I'd quit worrying about prepping the metal for the welder and just let him do the prep work, most welders like to fit and grind the parts they'll be joining together the way they prefer them.

[dataway]

I just looked at my 68, I can see yours is not a 68 which has a body mount right on the end of the frame. If I'm seeing things right, the old piece came off/rusted off right where it meets the frame.

Looks like those rear cross members overlap the frame on top and bottom, and almost meet in the corner ... which would mean no butt weld on the frame, which means the job would be 90% easier. Take the paint off the new part ... clamp in place, weld.

The weld you are trying to clean up on the top appears to be the factory weld where the original cross member was overlapped. If you can not get all of that off, not a big deal, the new part can be trimmed back to avoid that area.

Once you get the new part in your hands, clamp it in place and post some new pictures.

Long as no one torched off the frame tails you should be fine.

[gtorich]

Ok, a few more pics for you guys...……...hopefully this isn't that big of a deal...….but lately everything I touch is breaking on me .lol

You can see the part fits a little better on the drive side vs the pass side, not sure if theres supposed to be a gap in there or not...……

Not the right way by any means, but almost looks like I could just throw a nut in bolt in the top piece, then the same on the bottom piece...………..not sure what I would do with that slit in the adjustment hole though.

Does this look like a easy job to you welders, or is this even a challenge for a good welder...…...I talked to a few guys that weld, doesn't mean there any good at it though. lol

Rich

[gtorich]

Couple more pics for you guys.

Once again, thanks for the help, this old boy needs all he can get.

Rich

[Sirrotica]

The ends of the frame are tweaked from pulling on the old crossmember. A couple minutes with a hammer and a crescent wrench will put the metal right where it should be. Even if it's not a perfect fit, after a bead is run there won't be any gap anyway, an 1/8 inch gap is easy to fill for someone that has the skill set. Probably less than a half hours work. Believe me I have seen much worse put back together, and it looked factory after it was done.


Just another day in the life of a welder...……

[400 4spd.]

My opinion-
First thing you should fix is the cut in the left rail at the bolt hole. If you weld it after the cross member is in, you can't grind it flush. Not grinding it flush will cause problems with the rear bolt when you bolt the bumper up. The lump of weld will influence the position the bracket and bolt take.
The top of the new part is angled less than 90 degrees and preventing the lower part from aligning. Seen throughout pics 1 through 5. Fix that so the new part is flush everywhere that it contacts the frame.
Your left rail has a twist behind the body mount. Correct that.
Above all, keep in mind that if the new part is not welded on forward enough, the center bumper brace will hold your bumper back too far.
So, I suggest this.
Fix and grind the bad cut at the bolt hole.
If your doing any plug welds on the cross member to the rails, go ahead and drill those holes (5/16 or 3/8) the next time you have it off.
Have the bumper WITH CENTER BRACE bolted in place to bumper and cross member so you can position the cross member depth and height correctly. Bumper needs to be exactly where you want it. Do not assume your bumper will fit later on otherwise.
Cover the exhaust tips with a few layers of masking tape or protect with something that prevents welding sparks from bonding to them. Otherwise you will have rust stained tips as soon as they get wet. Do the same for your bumper.
Once the cross member is firmly attached to the rails, you can always unbolt the trunk floor pan and raise the body away for better access of welding the top edge.

[gtorich]

Ok, guys tried messing around with this again today, if anyone has a pic of a 66 or 67 frame with the body off, a side shot would be helpful...…….just doesn't seem like this part is gonna fit right...……..400 I pm"ed you

I can get the part to fit pretty good if I do it with the cross member inside the frame rail, thinking of holding it together that way and put the bumper back on and see how that looks.

pics 6&7 shows the gaps with the part on top of the frame...…….# 5, not sure how that happened, but that cornor is pretty much razor thin...…….just having a hard time trying to grind down that welded section.

Rich

[gtorich]

Last two pics, for you guys who have done this, is this part supposed to fit perfectly in the frame, no matter how you look at it, just doesn't seem like it would fit like that, without cutting part of the frame out.

Rich

[dataway]

Looks to me like you are missing a bit of frame length. Maybe an inch.

Yeah, you should check out some of other 66/67 frames and see what they look like.

Personally, I'd hammer that beeyatch on there and weld it ... long as the bumper bolts up correctly.

Fit is kind of relative... to be honest the part is probably more correct in size/shape than your frame rails.

Most rear frame rail corners like that have from zero to 1/4" gaps.

In your case I'd check two things.

1. You are being too gentle with that part, bang that thing on there, it's a frame piece, not a fender

2. The frame rails are tweaked, bent, missing length.

Attached is a picture of my freshly sand blasted 68 frame a couple of years ago. Note the corner sucks, probably 1/4" gap, shiiiity welds etc.

So ... don't expect precision on the corners.