[lshort420]

I'm preparing to do some bolt on mods to my 1964 Catalina, and I was hoping to get some input from more experienced techs in order to avoid some pitfalls.

My current setup is a bone stock 389 (12H, 267HP, 2V, 640 cam, Auto, 10.5:1 CR). I have the following parts to install:

-Edelbrock EP4B Intake Manifold
-Edelbrock 1406 600CFM Squarebore Carb
-1 7/8'' Mad Dog Headers
-Flowmaster dual exhaust
-Pertronix Distributor kit and high output coil

I guess I just want to know if these sound like reasonable mods, and whether or not I need to be concerned about anything. I figure the cam is probably milder than the ones which were in the stock 4V engines. Will this be a problem? I have been running 91 octane fuel for years with no problems. Should I expect that to change after my mods? Will I need to change my timing and spark plug gap after these mods? Will my current linkage and kickdown match up well with the new carb? What kind of performance gains can I expect to see?

Thanks guys.

[Txbobcat]

I believe you picked up some good mods and it should pick up some horses . Timing and gap should stay the same. Possibly you may need to fab something for the carb, Good luck

[elefantrider]

What are your goals? You might pick up a few horses at the expense of drivability, low end torque and fuel economy. Power is in the heads and camshaft so i wouldn't expect anything amazing simply by bolting on these parts to a 2bbl motor.

[mike nixon]

Linkage probably will not fit from the 2v to the 4 v carb. Throttle shaft is in a different location.

honestly I don't know that you'll need the headers with the 2bbl cam and small valves.

Mike

[64woodwheel]

I would advise finding a 3649S Carter. They are calibrated for '64 Pontiac 389 auto and linkage will fit.

[lshort420]

Thanks for all of your input guys. I guess I had it in mind that I would be able to get the old Cat up to around 300HP, achieve better throttle response, and ultimate driveability by doing these mods. I'm not looking for anything even remotely radical. I just figured by opening this thing up so it can actually breathe I would be able to make it a nicer car and a bit more fun to drive. I may have the heads worked and up the cam down the road some point, but for now I'm looking for mild, fun, sounding and driving nice.

Luke

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by 64woodwheel

I would advise finding a 3649S Carter. They are calibrated for '64 Pontiac 389 auto and linkage will fit.

If you did this and long branch manifolds and an 068 cam, it would all fit, and you would not have to fight anything. You would get the best & most reliable bang for your buck.

Aftermarket stuff for these cars is frustrating and ends up costing a lot more in the experience of many.

[64woodwheel]

I know this has been covered before, but edelbrock 600 cfm carbs are calibrated for small block chevy;s. If you want better throttle response, it might have the opposite effect on a Pontiac.

[61-63]

Originally Posted by lshort420

Thanks for all of your input guys. I guess I had it in mind that I would be able to get the old Cat up to around 300HP, achieve better throttle response, and ultimate driveability by doing these mods. I'm not looking for anything even remotely radical. I just figured by opening this thing up so it can actually breathe I would be able to make it a nicer car and a bit more fun to drive. I may have the heads worked and up the cam down the road some point, but for now I'm looking for mild, fun, sounding and driving nice.

Luke

Have you bought this stuff already? If you have then it will give you more power than you had so put it on and go.

If not I would suggest what others have and recommend you buy an old Carter AFB made for that year 389 Catalina and a set of our sponsors '67 GP cast iron long branch exhaust manifolds. The AFB is a better carb that the Edelbrock IMO (and just about everyone else) and the cast iron exhaust manifolds can be bought for less than the headers and will be a lot less trouble - + are good performance exhaust manifolds. JMO.

[lshort420]

Lots of great advice here guys, thanks again. I have already purchased my parts, however, I had my carb built to the specs of this car with these intended mods by a local carb genius. He has built it specifically for this conversion, stock motor, and additional parts, headers etc.

I was under the impression that the Mad Dog Headers would be very good for this application, and that a cam and head replacement would not be necessary to achieve the mild improvements I have in mind.

Luke

[63gpman]

Sounds like a nice combo to me. The epb4 is a solid intake and nothing wrong with headers other than leaks. Cam is just another improvement and can be had for about $100 + from summit including the lifters 2801 cam but is not needed. Not sure what cam you have in that one, but is likely an economy type grind with the 2bbl on it so an 067 or 068 type grind should wake it up even more.

Can we see what the car looks like? Pics are great!!

[Blued and Painted]

67 and up Pontiac iron intake will out flow the 4B. I've had good luck with q-jets with the integrated choke housing converted to electric.

[64woodwheel]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

67 and up Pontiac iron intake will out flow the 4B. I've had good luck with q-jets with the integrated choke housing converted to electric.

Qjet intakes wont fit 64 heads.

[Blued and Painted]

Originally Posted by 64woodwheel

Qjet intakes wont fit 64 heads.

Oop's. Is it a problem with the exhaust crossover?

[61-63]

Originally Posted by lshort420

Lots of great advice here guys, thanks again. I have already purchased my parts, however, I had my carb built to the specs of this car with these intended mods by a local carb genius. He has built it specifically for this conversion, stock motor, and additional parts, headers etc.

I was under the impression that the Mad Dog Headers would be very good for this application, and that a cam and head replacement would not be necessary to achieve the mild improvements I have in mind.

Luke

The Mad Dog Headers are indeed very good and will outflow the '67 long branch exhaust manifolds. It is just that for what you are doing right now the mad Dog Headers are way overkill; kind of like pulling a little red wagon with a Peterbuilt. But if you've got them you can grow into them with more mods down the road.

[lshort420]

Originally Posted by 63gpman

Sounds like a nice combo to me. The epb4 is a solid intake and nothing wrong with headers other than leaks. Cam is just another improvement and can be had for about $100 + from summit including the lifters 2801 cam but is not needed. Not sure what cam you have in that one, but is likely an economy type grind with the 2bbl on it so an 067 or 068 type grind should wake it up even more.

Can we see what the car looks like? Pics are great!!

How much work am I looking at to swap this cam out? For some reason I have been under the impression that it isnt an easy procedure on these older 389's. I have only done a cam upgrade once (well watched really) on a SBC. What gains should I expect if I put the 068 grind in there?

Also, I have not been able to find the bolt tightening sequence for the EP4B manifold. Any ideas there?

You mentioned header leaks. What is the best way to avoid them? Do I just need to make a routine out of retightening the header bolts?

[64woodwheel]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

Oop's. Is it a problem with the exhaust crossover?

It's the water crossover that is the killer. The 64 heads are 6 intake bolts the 65-up are 5.

[lshort420]

Originally Posted by 61-63

The Mad Dog Headers are indeed very good and will outflow the '67 long branch exhaust manifolds. It is just that for what you are doing right now the mad Dog Headers are way overkill; kind of like pulling a little red wagon with a Peterbuilt. But if you've got them you can grow into them with more mods down the road.

I think I get it. The headers are really not neccessary at this stage, but not going to hurt if I add them now, and will be helpful as I continue to modify the car?

If I decided to add the 068 cam down the road, what would you recommend having done to the heads in order to fit well with the rest of the equipment I'm adding?

[61-63]

On the intake tighten the bolts near the center both sides and work out towards the ends and do it in steps not with the target torque first time.

If you go to a bigger cam like an 068 (or anything really) you should do the heads and put new valve springs in because the valve springs if original; are very tired at this point and have no where near the seat pressure the new cam will want. Before you buy an 068 look at a Summit 2801 combination cam and lifters for $99 I think it is which is a great street cam IMO and a heck of a buy.

The worst part about putting the cam in IMO is removing and reinstalling the harmonic balancer and stuff bolted to the crank snout, which you have to do to remove the timing chain cover. But I've done it in a '63 Catalina after pulling the radiator and a '64 is basically the same car. It took me 3 or 4 hours as I recall and I am old and slow.

[lshort420]

After having heard everyone's advice, I think that I may stick with the original plan, and simply throw the parts on that I have already, get everything dialed in, feel it out, and then possibly proceed to have the heads reworked and upgrade the cam down the road as advised.

I am going to stay optimistic that the 1406 Edelbrock will be ok for this application. Hopefully it won't require too much work to get lined up with my existing linkage.

I will post a report after that work is done, and put some pictures up as well.

Thanks for everyone's two cents. I feel much more confident going into this now.

Luke