[BruceWilkie]

Dick thanks for your input! I love your car... Deb flipped when she saw pics...

We envy your empty nest situation... Ours was almost empty 12 years ago... got carried away with increased freedom lol ! Not too bad with just one around... We'll be lucky to have an empty nest by time I'm 70, at earliest I'll be 66. With 6 kids and already6 grandkids we wont likely get lonely ever.

Doing this stuff takes longer than when I was younger... I put the credit cards in lock down a long time ago!!! I aint doin that again! Glad I have skills I dont have to pay someone else for... I'd have to take up some mundane hobby.

[marks73ta]

I'm glad you guys are doing this thread. I still have to tackle my trunk located radiator and make sure it flows and cools since "cool" days in Phoenix AZ are few and far between. So far I'm going with a 55 GPM electric single outlet electric remote pump located aback t the radiator outlet. -16 (7/8ths) to and from the. Not too sure if it will work or not. I'm concerned whether that pump will move enough coolant (water) all the way up and back with enough power to maintain flow and any pressure. I'm thinking about a helper pump up front for a return. I've also cut the top off of an old front cover thinking to use that with a Mezeier type electric back at the radiator and the remote I already have to use for the return. I do not have the capability of a factory pump on the front of the motor since I am using a Hilborn cam driven fuel pump on a MOON front cover. At least for now.
There are belt driven Hilborn pump units that I could mount off of my front engine plate and I could install the factory type front cover and use a regular belt driven or an aftermarket electric pump in there.
I'm also committed to making the trunk mount radiator work. No place left in the front for a radiator. It's probably shoot self in foot time but I want to make it work.
Anywho, still working out that system.

Mark L

[LMSRACER]

Originally Posted by marks73ta

I'm glad you guys are doing this thread. I still have to tackle my trunk located radiator and make sure it flows and cools since "cool" days in Phoenix AZ are few and far between. So far I'm going with a 55 GPM electric single outlet electric remote pump located aback t the radiator outlet. -16 (7/8ths) to and from the. Not too sure if it will work or not. I'm concerned whether that pump will move enough coolant (water) all the way up and back with enough power to maintain flow and any pressure. I'm thinking about a helper pump up front for a return. I've also cut the top off of an old front cover thinking to use that with a Mezeier type electric back at the radiator and the remote I already have to use for the return. I do not have the capability of a factory pump on the front of the motor since I am using a Hilborn cam driven fuel pump on a MOON front cover. At least for now.
There are belt driven Hilborn pump units that I could mount off of my front engine plate and I could install the factory type front cover and use a regular belt driven or an aftermarket electric pump in there.
I'm also committed to making the trunk mount radiator work. No place left in the front for a radiator. It's probably shoot self in foot time but I want to make it work.
Anywho, still working out that system.

Mark L

Good Morning Mark,
I'm at work at the moment so I'll just make a couple of comments and get back to you later.
First off I'll say that a -16 AN Line feeding a 55 GPM Pump is WAAAYYYY too small period. A -24 AN Line or a 1.300" I.D. Hose fitting is what that pump needs. Never starve the inlet side of a pump. I'm sure that there are those that say you can get away with it, but in fact they are wrong.
Then there is the issue of the outlet side of that particular pump. What I WOULD NOT do is run one single large line all the way to the front of the vehicle. Two -16 AN lines is what I would run.

Engine Feed/Supply Lines:
Two -16 AN Lines = One 1.1879393" Orifice (Approx. 1-3/16")

Definitiely Mount the Pump Behind the Radiator.

Now the Return Lines from the Engine Outlet to the Radiator Inlet. If there is Room, I'd probably run a Single -20 AN Line.

Engine Outlet/Radiator Inlet Line:
One -20 AN Line = One 1.08" Orifice. (Approx. 1-5/64")

Then here's what I'd do....
With the System Operating and a Pressure Gauge Mounted in the Engine's Internal Cooling System, I'd Monitor the System Pressure in the Engine.

NOTE:
Where you mount the gauge will depend on how you design your cooling system. What I don't care about is the pressure in the lines leading to the engine or the line coming back from the engine. What I want to know is if the Return Line is too big for the system to create sufficient pressure inside the ENGINE'S coolant passages.
If it were determined that the return line was TOO large, then I'd create a restrictor and installl it in the return line.

Next... Monitor that "Internal Engine Cooling System Pressure" during a Run down the track. If it maintains a good steady pressure then we're done.
If it doesn't then here's why..
The "COLUMN" of Coolant in the Two -16 AN Feed Lines have MASS/WEIGHT. Under Acceleration the Water Pump has to Overcome this Mass which Creates Additional Pressure in those Lines and Requires the Water Pump to Work Harder. Whenever the Water Pump Works Harder, it SLOWS down somewhat. If it Slows down tooo much, we'll loose internal system pressure.

If that occurred, then and only then, would I say that you need a Booster Pump...
Be sure to supply that Water Pump with an Excellent Electrical Supply.
(High Amperage Rating Relay, Large Gauge Wire + & -, etc.)

Larry S.

[jm455ho]

Originally Posted by LMSRACER

With the 35 GPM Pump and the way that the deck is drilled in your block, I would run Two -8 AN Lines in the Front, Two -6 AN Lines in the Center and Two -8 AN Lines in the Rear.

At Johns Manifold use Two (-10 AN X -8 AN Male Adapters) for the Front Lines and Two (-10 AN Adapters) for the Rear Lines.

On each Cylinder Head, Run the Center -6 AN Line and the Rear -8 AN Line into a "Y" or "T" Fitting with a -10 AN Outlet Line that'll run to the other Two Ports in John's Manifold.

Note:
One of the Manifolds that we're creating eliminates the need for multiple adapters to get this done under the intake manifold. It'll already have the -6 AN, the -8 AN and the -10 AN Fittings made into it.

So, Here's what you'll end up with:
Two -8 AN Lines (Front) and Two -10 AN Lines (Rear) at John's Manifold.
(That's Approximately the same as the Flow through a 7/8" Hole.)
Theoretically Speaking, the Water Pump Outlet Volume should Exceed the Volume of Flow through that 7/8" Orifice and therefore be Capable of Creating a Positive Pressure in the Cooling System.

Keep in mind that whenever the coolant is forced to make a turn or flow through a hose or through a "T" or anything of this nature, the resistance to flow increases. This means that even if you calculate all of the various orifices to equal a specific "Total Orifice" size, the actual coolant flow will be less and the overall restriction will be greater.

Therefore even if the flow capacity of the Water Pump is "EQUAL" to your calculated "Total" orifice size, which means that "Theoretically" it wouldn't create pressure, in fact it would still create pressure.

I hope that all makes good sense...
BTW, In my original lengthy post, I meant to say 35 GPM Water Pump in my examples and not the 30 GPM that I listed..... Woops....

Larry S.

Drilled and tapped my KRE HP's for the center cooling mod. Decks are quite thick.

[marks73ta]

Larry. Thank you for your thoughts. Just a couple of notes. The remote elec. pump I have is rated at 50 GPM not 55 as I mistakenly listed. Plus it is not a Mezeier twin exit remote. The pump itself has a 1 inch NPT inlet and I have a I inch NPT inlet fitting that expands out to 1.5 for the radiator hose that feeds the pump fitting. The fitting is not a full 1 inch inside but just short, probably about 15/16ths. The pump also has only one single outlet, and it is again a 1 inch NPT opening. And again the outlet fitting is the same inside diameter as the inlet fitting (15/16ths?) with a -16 bung on it. I have enough -16 lines to run two from the pump to the motor but I'm sure the remote pumps single outlet will make that useless. My thought is to step up to -20 or even -23 out of the pump to the motor. Then use two -16 as returns back to the radiator. With possible restrictors/ball valves in the -16 lines to regulate the pressure. I took a Pontiac stock front cover and cut off the top water pump section. I'm thinking of getting a 55 GPM Mezeier Pontiac pump and installing that all in the rear. It would have a 1.5 inlet, feeding the Mezeier 55 GPM pump, twin outlets that I could weld -16 bungs on and run twin -16 lines to the motor. Then run a -20 all the way back.

Mark

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by LMSRACER

This is for Information Purposes Only. These Calculations are based on a Consistent Discharge Coefficient for the Various Orifices Listed.

I've been mentioned here recently and therefore felt compelled to provide some technical information that may be of help to those interested.

I have stopped posting on this topic because, since we do make parts for pontiacs, I didn't want the Performance Years Police to punish me.

>> Here's what needs to be considered: (Initially)
1) Water Pump Flow Capacity in Gallons Per Minute.
2) Water Pump Inlet, Inside Diameter/Area.
(Should Always be Larger than the Outlet to Avoid Water Pump Cavitation.)
3) Cooling System Outlet Hose/Line Inside Diameter/Area.
(This is the Actual Orifice/Inside Diameter/Area Calculation of the Engine's Coolant Outlet.)
4) Coolant Line/Hose Routing.
(Keep in Mind that "Unrestricted" Coolant Flow Always Flows through the Path of Least Resistance.)
5) Individual Coolant Line/Hose I.D. and how it relates to the Velocity & Pressure of the Coolant.
(Actually, the I.D. of the Fitting Utilized is what's Important because the I.D. of the Fitting is Always Smaller than the I.D. of the Hose.)
6) Coolant Passage Holes/Orifices in the Cylinder Head's and Engine Block's, Deck Surfaces.
(Very Important when Adding or Plugging Holes in the Deck Surface.)

O.K., to be clear, if you are using a "Stock Block", the sizes and quantity of holes in the deck surfaces are equal to the "Approximate" flow capacity of a 1.705" Hole/Orifice.
>> Calculated from 5 x 5/16", 1 x 3/8", 3 x 7/16" and 1 x 1/2" hole per Deck Surface. <<

Therefore a "Stock Block" Deck Surface allows more than ample coolant flow and will not be the restriction to coolant flow. In fact the I.D. of a "Stock Thermostat Housing" Outlet is Approximately 1.300". That's Approximately 42% Less Flow than the Flow Capacity through both Deck Surfaces.

Here's some pertinent information relating to "AN Fitting" dimensions.
>> Necessaary for Flow Volume Calculations. <<
-8 AN = 0.390" Orifice = .11946 sq.in. Area.
-10 AN = 0.480" Orifice = .18096 sq.in. Area.
-12 AN = 0.610" Orifice = 0.29224 sq.in. Area.

Therefore:
2 x -8 AN = .23892 sq.in. Area = .5515454" Hole/Orifice (35/64" - Closest 1/64")
4 x -8 AN = .47784 sq.in. Area = .7800031" Hole/Orifice (25/32" - Closest 1/64")
2 x -10 AN = .36192 sq.in. Area = .6788305" Hole/Orifice (43/64" - Closest 1/64")
4 x -10 AN = .72384 sq.in. Area = .9600114" Hole/Orifice (31/32" - Closest 1/64")
2 x -12 AN = .58448 sq.in. Area = .86266.5" Hole/Orifice (55/64" - Closest 1/64")
4 x -12 AN = 1.16896 sq.in. Area = 1.2199862" Hole/Orifice (1-7/32" - Closest 1/64")

Therefore: (Coolant Velocity Calculations.)
>> Knowing that the Water Pump is Rated @ 30 Gallons Per Minute in this Example. <<
2 x -8 AN Fittings = 40.281 ft./sec.
4 x -8 AN Fittings = 20.141 ft./sec.
2 x -10 AN Fittings = 26.592 ft./sec.
4 x -10 AN Fittings = 13.296 ft./sec.
2 x -12 AN Fittings = 16.466 ft./sec.
4 x -12 AN Fittings = 8.233 ft./sec.

O.K., So here's what you need to consider:
1) As the velocity in the Hoses/Lines Increases, the Positive Pressure Created by the Water Pump in the Engine's Coolant Passages also Increases.
2) Positive Pressure in the Engine's Coolant Passages that is Created by the Water Pump is a "Good Thing". Not at all the same thing as "Coolant System Pressure" created by Engine Heat or by the Formation of Steam Pockets.
* NOTE: "Excessive" Positive Pressure slows the Water Pump and can Actually Damage the Pump's Electric Motor.
3) Whenever the Water Pump is Capable of Creating a "Positive Presure" in the Engine's Coolant Passages, it is of Benefit. The Idea is that the Coolant Passages are full of Pockets and Cavities that can be Difficult for the Coolant to Reach and for the Air to Escape. These pockets are Steam Traps. Temperatures in Steam Pockets Sky Rocket and can be Disasterous. The Positive Pressure Created by the Water Pump Aids in Forcing Coolant into these Areas and Forcing the Air out.
4) Never Run the Engine without the Water Pump Running. Once a Steam Pocket begins to Form it Pressurizes that Area and it then becomes very difficult to Quench that Area once the Water Pump begins to Run. Picture what happens when you pour cold water into a Hot "Cast Iron" Skillet. Now picture that same water cooling the skillet before it gets hot. One way it cools the skillet easily and the other way it's a losing battle.
5) Fabricate and Install Coolant Lines from the Rear of the Cylinder Head Outlets at the Intake Flange Surface (Factory Heater Hose Outlet Area.) to the Thermostat/Water Outlet Housing Area. Preferrably above the Restrictor that you would run in place of the Thermostat. The Restrictor's Size should be Utilized to Control the Flow of Coolant from the Front of the Engine Only.
>> If you haven't already done this, you should. <<
6) If your Engine is a "Serious Race Effort" then adding additional lines from the Center of the Heads, at the Intake Flange Area, to the Thermostat/Water Outlet Housing Area is also a must.
>> If your Heads don't have the Outlets already, then add them. <<
7) In Extreme Effort Applications, some folks, such as Scott Rex, John Langer and John Marcella are actually "Injecting Cold Coolant" through the Cylinder Head and onto the Deck Surface between the Center Two Exhaust Ports to keep the Head from getting Soft and Warping.

Here's where it gets tricky. Everyone asks, What Size Lines and How Many?
The answer relates to the Water Pump Flow, the Engine's Power Output, the Fuel being Utilized and the Plumbing Configuration.

Here's some "Basic Recommendations":
1) Belt Driven Pumps and Mechanical Pumps with the Moroso Water Pump Drive.
>> Bare Minimum = 4 x -8AN Hoses. Two from the Front and Two from the Rear. <<
(This Calculated Volume is Slightly Greater than Running a Single 3/4" Restrictor in Place of the Thermostat.)
2) 30 GPM Electric Pumps.
>> Most Racing Applications = 4 x -10 AN Hoses. Two from the Front and Two from the Rear.
(This Calculated Volume is Slightly Less than Running a Single 1" Restrictor in Place of the Thermostat.)
>> Optional = 2 x -10 AN Hoses Front. 2 x -10 AN Hoses from the Rear coming off of a "Y" Fitting where Two -8 AN Hoses are Plumbed to the Rear of the Heads and 2 x -6 AN Hoses are Plumbed to the Center of the Heads.
3) Inline Water Pumps and High Volume Electric Pumps above 30 G.P.M..
>> Three -10 AN Lines Per Cylinder Head for a Total of Six. These Six Lines Plumbed into a Coolant/Water Outlet Manifold like the One Offered by John Marcella and CSR to just Name a Couple.
4) Extreme Effort Applications = Whatever it Takes... LOL.....

For the Guys looking to keep a more "Stock Appearance", Reduce the Number of Coolant Lines and keep their Cost down, we offer components that can maintain the factory water crossover manifold in the front of the engine and the factory water outlet/thermostat housing. They're engineered so that the flow volumes are correct and the appearance is much more factory without so many hoses, fittings and exotic fabricated manifolds. They're also designed to control the coolant flow from the front and rear of the engine seperately, much the way that varying the individual hose sizes does.

One Last Note:
Configurations differ and although alot are the same, some can be exotic. I can help you with your set-up if you want me to. Shoot me a PM or an E-Mail @ oprecisionautom@carolina.rr.com...

Thanks for Listening.. Back to Work,
Larry S.

Excellent write-up and posting of the theory behind some cooling system work you have done.

I wanted to add that we sometimes take a sheet of 1" thick Lexan and drill the head bolt attaching holes in the Plate (made from the sheet). We also drill and attach thin stainless water nipples with twice the area of any given water hole in the block on the plate.

We bolt down the plate with an "o-ring" receiver groove around each water hole for sealing.

We attach a matching hose to each water nipple and then run the hoses to a Lexan Collection Tank Grid that has 16 "tanks" (4 x 4 pattern 2 gallon volume per Grid 'tank") to collect and measure the water from a given hose in a given amount of time.

The pump has a flow meter in line from it to the engine block feed location.

So now we know the total flow in a given time and the actual flow coming from each opening in the block in a given time.

Very difficult to calculate a discharge Co-Efficient for a cast water hole or even a machined water hole as water erosion will constantly change the co-efficient over time.

Our rig allows us to document the changes over time from the initial "New Build" before the dyno test and then throughout the testing cycle.

It would be very easy to do a simple rig that would allow you to measure the actual flow for the given holes in a Pontiac Block deck.

Food for thought.

Again Great write-up on the Pontiac Larry. (:>)

Tom V.

[LMSRACER]

Originally Posted by jm455ho

Drilled and tapped my KRE HP's for the center cooling mod. Decks are quite thick.

It's tough to tell from the photo, but if you haven't already drilled and tapped that port for a 3/8"-NPT male fitting, I think that you should. If you were to ever go to a -8 AN fitting in the center port, a 1/4" NPT x -8 AN fitting would have too small of a "Through Hole" due to the acceptable wall thickness at the 1/4" NPT end of the fitting.

BTW, I returned your E-Mail this morning....

Have a good one,
Larry S.

[LMSRACER]

Originally Posted by marks73ta

Larry. Thank you for your thoughts. Just a couple of notes. The remote elec. pump I have is rated at 50 GPM not 55 as I mistakenly listed. Plus it is not a Mezeier twin exit remote. The pump itself has a 1 inch NPT inlet and I have a I inch NPT inlet fitting that expands out to 1.5 for the radiator hose that feeds the pump fitting. The fitting is not a full 1 inch inside but just short, probably about 15/16ths. The pump also has only one single outlet, and it is again a 1 inch NPT opening. And again the outlet fitting is the same inside diameter as the inlet fitting (15/16ths?) with a -16 bung on it. I have enough -16 lines to run two from the pump to the motor but I'm sure the remote pumps single outlet will make that useless. My thought is to step up to -20 or even -23 out of the pump to the motor. Then use two -16 as returns back to the radiator. With possible restrictors/ball valves in the -16 lines to regulate the pressure. I took a Pontiac stock front cover and cut off the top water pump section. I'm thinking of getting a 55 GPM Mezeier Pontiac pump and installing that all in the rear. It would have a 1.5 inlet, feeding the Mezeier 55 GPM pump, twin outlets that I could weld -16 bungs on and run twin -16 lines to the motor. Then run a -20 all the way back.

Mark

Mark,
Answer a few questions if you would so that I know we're on the same page.
1) What is the Brand of Pump that you're using?
2) Is this going to be "Reverse Flow" Cooling?
3) What Type of Cylinder Heads are you using and how many Coolant Outlets do they have?
4) What Type & Size of Radiator are You using and what Sizes are the Inlets and Outlets?

Good Pictures Always Helps.....

Larry S.

[LMSRACER]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Excellent write-up and posting of the theory behind some cooling system work you have done.

I wanted to add that we sometimes take a sheet of 1" thick Lexan and drill the head bolt attaching holes in the Plate (made from the sheet). We also drill and attach thin stainless water nipples with twice the area of any given water hole in the block on the plate.

We bolt down the plate with an "o-ring" receiver groove around each water hole for sealing.

We attach a matching hose to each water nipple and then run the hoses to a Lexan Collection Tank Grid that has 16 "tanks" (4 x 4 pattern 2 gallon volume per Grid 'tank") to collect and measure the water from a given hose in a given amount of time.

The pump has a flow meter in line from it to the engine block feed location.

So now we know the total flow in a given time and the actual flow coming from each opening in the block in a given time.

Very difficult to calculate a discharge Co-Efficient for a cast water hole or even a machined water hole as water erosion will constantly change the co-efficient over time.

Our rig allows us to document the changes over time from the initial "New Build" before the dyno test and then throughout the testing cycle.

It would be very easy to do a simple rig that would allow you to measure the actual flow for the given holes in a Pontiac Block deck.

Food for thought.

Again Great write-up on the Pontiac Larry. (:>)

Tom V.

Thanks Again Tom...

I Agree 100% that the only way to determine the flow through a Block's Deck Surface is to Physical Measure it with the Pump that is intended for the Application.

Although, if the Calculated "Total Orifice" Area of the Block's Deck Surface Orifices is much greater than the Calculated "Total Orifice" Area of the Applicable Water Pump's Outlet, then it can be Concluded that the Block's Deck Surface Orifices will not pose a Restriction to the Water Pumps Outlet Volume.

Larry S.

[Tiger Paw]

Have you installed thermocouples for all 8 cylinders with your external plumbing, in order to verify that you have in fact lowered/equalized temps? Routing coolant from the very back of each head directly to the water crossover makes my think that may be tricking a temp gage.

Thermocouples should be installed in the heads for each cylinder centered on the exhaust side and monitored simultaneously. Some data would prove your system.

[LMSRACER]

Here's a few Images of the Prototype for the "Under Intake" Coolant Manifold that I had Mentioned Previously. This Manifold is Designed for Racing Applications Only. We're in the Process of Creating One for Street Car Applications.









This is as Small as I can make it. V8 Engines will require Two of these.
They will fit under the Edelbrock Victor Intakes, the BOP Intake, the All Pontiac Intake, Both Wenzler Tunnel Rams and they may also fit under the Kauffman Northwind.

They will come "Clear Coat" Anodized. We are still in the Process of Finalizing the Pricing and will Release that Information as soon as I can nail it down.

Thanks,
Larry S.

[LMSRACER]

Originally Posted by Tiger Paw

Have you installed thermocouples for all 8 cylinders with your external plumbing, in order to verify that you have in fact lowered/equalized temps? Routing coolant from the very back of each head directly to the water crossover makes my think that may be tricking a temp gage.

Thermocouples should be installed in the heads for each cylinder centered on the exhaust side and monitored simultaneously. Some data would prove your system.

Here's what I have done starting Twenty Years Ago, on Chevrolet and Pontiac Applications. I've monitored coolant temperatures on both banks of the engine. At the water crossover/manifold area, at the sensor location in the cylinder heads between cylinder's #1 & #3 and #6 & #8 and also at the coolant outlet locations located at the rear of the intake flanges.

I've done this on "Siamesed Cylinder" Blocks and on "Non Siamesed Cylinder" Blocks. I've also done this with and without the additional coolant lines that I speak of.

I've built, disassembled and inspected Racing Engines that are equipped with the coolant lines and I've built, disassembled and Inspected Racing Engines without the additional coolant lines.

My opinion is that I'll never build another Racing Engine without paying strict attention to the cooling system again. NEVER....

Now, as I mentioned in the very first Post in this Thread, this is for Information Purposes Only. If you doubt what I've Posted then by ALL MEANS, Ignore it and move on. But, ask yourself a few questions first.

First, why has EVERY Automotive Manufacturer Re-Engineered their Cooling Systems as the Engine's Efficiency and Output has Increased over the Last 20 Years?
Secondly, why can Engines Tolerate Higher Compression Ratios than they ever could in the Past?
Lastly, why are so many of the Latest "Racing Cylinder Heads" coming with an Elaborate "Cast Aluminum Cooling Manifold" that attaches below the Intake Runners and Allows Coolant to Flow out of the Cylinder Heads in Multiple Locations along the Deck Surface of the Cylinder Head?

This is MY OPINION and Yours may vary......

Have a Good One,
Larry S.

[RA462]

Forgive me if I missed this somewhere in this thread. I use -10 fittings at the rear of my High Port heads. Hoses that run under my intake to fittings that are tapped into the stock water crossover. Would you recommend installing allen head pipe plugs in the front of the heads (under the water crossover) with a hole drilled in them the same size as the rear -10 fittings to keep the water flow the same out of both ends? I think I'll tap holes in the center while things are apart so I can add your Y fittings when your have the available. This is a wet deck 535.

Thanks for the great cooling info in here.
Todd

[RA462]

jm455ho What is the measurement from the deck to the center of the tapped hole?

[jm455ho]

I'll measure tonight and post info.

[LMSRACER]

Originally Posted by RA462

Forgive me if I missed this somewhere in this thread. I use -10 fittings at the rear of my High Port heads. Hoses that run under my intake to fittings that are tapped into the stock water crossover. Would you recommend installing allen head pipe plugs in the front of the heads (under the water crossover) with a hole drilled in them the same size as the rear -10 fittings to keep the water flow the same out of both ends? I think I'll tap holes in the center while things are apart so I can add your Y fittings when your have the available. This is a wet deck 535.

Thanks for the great cooling info in here.
Todd

Todd,
First off, Your Welcome for the Information and Thanks for Acknowledging the Effort.

Yes, You can Install Plugs in the Front of the Cylinder Heads in the Threaded Passages under the Water Crossover. You'll have to Grind the Plug Down to Approximately Half of It's Original Thickness so that the Upper Edge is Flush with the Cylinder Head Surface. Each Plug that You Install would then need to have the Same Orifice Dimension as the Inside Diameter of the Rear -10 AN Fittings.

BTW, When I Designed the Coolant Manifold that We Sell, I Designed It in such a way as to Seperate the Coolant Flow Exiting the Front of the Cylinder Heads from the Coolant Flow Exiting the Rear of the Cylinder Heads. It was also Designed so that the Coolant Flow from the Front of the Cylinder Heads could be Regulated and Adjusted by doing No More than switching out the Calibrated Disc/Orifice that sits under it in the Original Thermostat Location. I've Attcahed an Image of that Manifold and the Calibrated Disc.

The "Under Intake" "Coolant Manifold" that we're currently in the Process of Producing will Work in Conjuction with this Manifold or with any other Coolant Manifold/Water Crossover of Your Choosing. I Posted the Images of that Manifold a Couple of Posts Back.

WET DECK BLOCKS:
Let Me clarify a few things about a Wet Deck Block that MUST be considered. If You've ever studied a "Stock Block" you would have found that the Coolant Passages are Sized and Located in such a way as to SUPPLY the Largest Volume of Coolant to the Center of the Cylinder Heads between #4 & #6 and #3 & #5 Cylinders. The Quantity of the Passages and their Sizing Favors the Frontal Area of the Cylinder Heads the Least.
Therefore, IF your Block is Drilled this way then there will be Ample Coolant Flow to the Center of the Cylinder Heads, IF of Course, the Corresponding Passages in the Cylinder Head's Deck Surface are Properly Sized and Properly Located.

I bring this up because you asked about the Orifice Sizing in the Front of Your Cylinder Heads and Its' Relationship to the Orifice Sizing at the Rear of Your Cylinder Heads. So let's say that Your Block's Deck Surface is Drilled much the same way that the Factory Drilled the Deck Surface. Then we now know that the greatest volume of coolant flow will be to the center of the heads. It'll then travel through the cylinder heads and out the front and rear outlet passages in a somewhat EQUAL manner. With EQUAL Orifice Sizing, of Course. You then, In My Opinion, could add Smaller -6 AN Outlet Fittings at the Center Area of the Cylinder Heads to Aid in Eliminating Steam Pockets and to Ensure that the Center of the Cylinder Heads would Receive the Coolest Coolant Possible.

Here is why , whenever we discuss "Plumbing" a Cooling System it can get a Little Tricky. So many times I've found that an Aftermarket Block's Deck Surface has been Drilled in many different ways. Some of which makes No sense to me whatsoever.
So let's say that the Deck's Orifice Sizing and Locations along the Block's Deck Surface is the Same or Symmetrical around each and every cylinder bore. Therefore, the Coolant Flow through the Deck Surface "WOULD NOT" be Biased Towards the Center of the Cylinder Heads but Instead Flow Equally to ALL Areas of the Cylinder Heads. In that Situation, I would Recommend a very Differnet Cooling System Plumbing Scheme. I would Recommend that the Largest Coolant Lines Exit the Center of the Cylinder Heads and that the Smallest Coolant Lines would be Located at the Front of the Cylinder Heads. That would Ensure that the Greatest Volume of Coolant, Regardless of How the Block's Deck Surface was Drilled, would be Forced to Flow through the Center of the Cylinder Heads.

ALL of this Information is for "Standard Flow" "Wet Deck" Applications. Dry Decked Applcations are VERY DIFFERENT.



Out of Time... I'll check back later....

Larry S.

[jm455ho]

Originally Posted by RA462

jm455ho What is the measurement from the deck to the center of the tapped hole?

2.85"

[Tiger Paw]

Thanks Larry,

Correct sizing and orifice location is the other half of the issue and completes the picture.

Good stuff.

[grandville455]

Some interesting info here!! So I have a few questions, I'm going to a IA2 Block and it will be street driven also, what is the best way to cool this? Do U need a wet deck or can it be dry decked?If dry decked what do i need to do? If Wet decked what do i need to do? what size holes and locations do they need to be on the deck? I'm running KRE D Ports now, but who knows down the road. Thanks so much! Pictures always help for reference and for others that may use this information.

[AIR RAM]

There is some great information here... I am definitely interested in incorporating this into my new build with my E heads. Its an old post but a very good one that may benefit some new members... Just bumping it back from the grave! (Plus bumping it makes it easier to find in the future... LOL)

I sent LMSRACER a message on his site.

I'm basically looking for a complete package that takes much of the thinking out of it. I'm to old to piece this stuff together... however not to old to bolt it up once all the pieces arrive.

I have the option to chose the correct E-pump to complement what ever is determined best for overall cooling for a street driven 496 Turbo.

If bumping this upset anyone... sorry.... (Not really)

SPEED SAFE, NICK