[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Gach

Mike do yourself a big favor, bring it to your Machine shop, here’s why I say this, if you are relying on information from the Internet, you are always going to get conflicting information you’ll be standing there going oh yeah, I know what he or they mean, 10 minutes later you’ll be walking away scratching your head. You’ll end up spending twice the money. And still end up with a ticking Bomb or as I like to call it running around with A grenade with a Pin out.

There’s a whole procedure you have to follow on rebuilding a motor, it’s a big learning experience, in the long run what are you going save, all the machine work Has to be done by a machine shop, at best only thing you’ll save is possibly assemble it yourself.

Now if you have that one experienced person that can guide you through the whole procedure one step at a time, and don’t deviate one bit from his guidance, then it could be possible. But you’ll learn a tremendous amount of information by going that route.

Mikes reply:

I have the experience, in the past for example, building a chevy 327 ci motor. I took it apart and took the Block to a radiator shop and then to the machine shop. I brought them the parts that I bought and handed them over. I got a short block in a bag.

On another occasion, I purchased a 350 chevy truck 4-bolt motor for my Chevelle that was reconditioned, I think they called it, a long block.

My friend rebuilt a 318-dodge small block and installed it in my van and then came over from time to time installing the Heads and accessories.

That motor got put into another van after an accident.

Now, this is my fifth experience and like you said I would like to do the work. So, whoever wants to be the one to walk me through it, I have all the tools, if it does not have to be bored. If it needs to be (over- bore) then I will take it to the machine shop. I am confident that between my roommate and my tools we can pull it off. Keep in mind that we just recently successfully remanufactured a 1967 Th 400 better than factory parts.

Since I am not sure whether or not this motor needs to be taken to the machine shop, all someone has to do is tell me how and what to check for "this and that". I have a shop book on my computer and some text that I purchased over the years, plus lots of files stored that I saved from the internet. I know how to use the degree wheel and the "041" Cam is to factory spec, from Melling and is installed "straight- up" for now. All the upper end is purchased within the last ten years or 7,000 miles, tops. The Trans. is remanufactured and Torque converter is brand new by Hughes. A new Flexplate and Harmonic Balancer completes the build. The lower end is next.

The way I see it, I would like to save money, because I just bought the Engine Hoist lift for $305 with the engine leveler accessory. We have micrometers and a Piston ring installer, ring sizer, air tools, Torque wrenches, motor stand, Bushing driver, threaded rod for the Cam removal Bearings, wrenches, sockets, Pliers. let's just say, that if I had to put a value on the tools in my shed and in my house, I would insure them for $50,000. I have tools to put about four carpenters to work, full time, floor covering mechanics x 2, 2 x electricians, a plumber and 6 auto-mechanics at once. I bought, saved and fixed tools, still up until today, that people through away.

I collect tools like people collect stamps. My brother said that I have the first and last dollar that I ever made, I wish that were true, because at the time it was. My current roommate is a scrapper, he finds metal and takes it to the scrap yard. He finds tools in the garbage along with AC wall units and we fix them, I must have a half a dozen working units in my shed and another six in the windows in my double wide mobile home, plus the 3-ton house unit. We also fixed and sold many TV's over the years. One man's junk is another's treasure. Besides it was the PY forum that helped me build the Trans. and those special people know who they are and I want to thank them again from the bottom of my heart.

Mikes reply:

You said:

"If you are relying on information from the Internet, you are always going to get conflicting information".

Mikes reply:

I have learned to extrapolate and discern the truth from fiction, in this day of the internet, I look at videos that pertain to every job that I am involved with as pertaining this Vehicle that love, over the past ten-year period. I also take notes to help my memory. I read the articles pertaining to the subject at hand. I even went back to school, after retiring from being self-employed for fifteen years in the floor covering business, that I owned and operated myself. I then went to get a degree in Auto-cad Drafting school over a two-year period just to keep a "learning edge" and I earned an "A" for my effort, plus a degree. I was involved with Boats for 20 years with my father, running concurrently with the floor covering business. I sold boats and floor covering products and installed the material with expertise, second to none. Making the seams in the carpet was like an artist painting a portrait.

So yes, I am ready to tackle the next challenge in front of me. A good teacher will be appreciated. This is what we are up to here on this forum, at least I am here to share my limited knowledge that I can share and that is all I have is trial and error to my advantage.

[Gach]

Well sounds like you have the tools and capability of doing it and just may need help on refreshing your memory on things

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 242177P

Sigh. You're going to build a short block. That much is painfully clear. It has been for hundreds of posts. But you're trying to count your chickens before they've hatched. For all you know, that crank was broken in two when you dented(?!) the torque converter.

Step 1: Mike picks a builder with a solid reputation.

They should have no trouble coming up with a plan that suits your needs. But until they know *exactly* what they're working with... Even the dreaded Supply Chain can rear its ugly head spoiling the best laid plans. Until you clear a hurdle, it's best not to set anything in stone.

Mikes reply:

I agree, because the motor is not yet apart, who can say for sure what the problem is. However, one can reason and that is how we got to this point. The short block needs to be rebuilt because it just happens to be the only thing that has not been. Whether it is the Crank pin or a piston slap is to be determined soon. Our educated guess, while using a stethoscope, plus rocking the (# 7) Piston sideways and up and down simultaneously, and to the best of our ability, implies that (#7) is loosest of them all.

Thereby making the knocking noise, but I would not run out and buy any parts yet. (#7) is the only one to have an up and down motion at all. What does that imply? To us the Crank Pin. We have never heard a piston slap, by definition of the word, a slapping sound, obviously this novice does not know what a Piston slap sounds like but I am Fairley confident that it sounds differently from a knock. I do have experience while driving an old van that had a Piston knock. The knock in the van motor that I drove is the exact noise that we are experiencing at this moment in time on this motor. Knocking unfortunately is what we are hearing and when we went to 10-40 from 10-30 the knock actually got, shall I dare say, tammar in sound.

I can say this, without a doubt, that the Crank is "not" in half or whatever you're implying. Because we drove the motor and it would "not" get out of the driveway if it were, yes or no question here? I have to ask are you being facetious or are you being negative. I don't give a reason for anybody putting me down, at this time or any other time nor for any reason. Please tell me you care about the concerted effort that I am making to better myself in a world that sucks.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Gach

Well sounds like you have the tools and capability of doing it and just may need help on refreshing your memory on things

Mikes reply:

I admit that I am in unfamiliar territory, but I am a motivated and quick learner, so teach me if you will.

There are secrets in every single trade and only the best that I want to hear from please, racers and mechanics for sure.

[Gach]

I’d be more then glad to help. Its hard to tell by what you’ve described what’s really going on, hey it could be a bearing or number of other things. It would only be a guess. Best thing is to get it apart, and get some good pictures

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Gach

I’d be more than glad to help. It's hard to tell by what you’ve described, what’s really going on, hey it could be a bearing or a number of other things. It would only be a guess. Best thing is to get it apart, and get some good pictures

Mikes reply:

We just bought the Engine Hoist yesterday and assembled it last night and we are going to pull the Engine and have it on the stand by tonight, hopefully, Mike.

Mikes reply:

Let's start using this Thread for the Engine Build, so I can keep the winers from wining:

1967 Pontiac 428 ci Block" Build or not to Build", Myself?

Let me "thank you" for your help in advance.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

We just got through pulling the 428ci HO Block and it started to rain, here are some photos:

[Gach]

Nice Engine hoist. Progress.

[Gach]

Mike… PM me and we can exchange phone numbers, I’ve help allot of guys that way, helps avoiding all the drama.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

The addition of the chain was my idea to extend the boom to reach my deep seated engine. From looking at the picture, we could have extended the legs to the front of the engine at least, but it seemed to work anyway, thanks to the extra chain reinforcement. By the way we held the chain from slipping side to side with tie straps, before we moved it further than it was in the photo. Notice how tight the chain got!

We have the Block on the Bench and we are pulling the Harmonic Balancer, Flexplate, Timing Gear and chain, plus the "041" Cam and Oil pan. The Pistons and the Crank will be next. Then we can measure parts for ware and make decisions from there.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

I can say this, without a doubt, that the Crank is "not" in half or whatever you're implying. Because we drove the motor and it would "not" get out of the driveway if it were, yes or no question here?

Cranks can, and have, split in two and still stay together. Wouldn't have posted it otherwise. After a hard hit to the torque convertor *and a broken harmonic damper* it's not something you can simply dismiss. Don't remember who posted this, but I found it on PY some time ago.



Even if a crankshaft looks fine at a glance, magnaflux is money well spent. You wouldn't build a house on a bad foundation, would you? You need to know what you have on hand is something you can work with.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 242177P

Cranks can, and have, split in two and still stay together. Wouldn't have posted it otherwise. After a hard hit to the torque converter *and a broken harmonic damper* it's not something you can simply dismiss. I don't remember who posted this, but I found it on PY some time ago.



Even if a crankshaft looks fine at a glance, magnaflux is money well spent. You wouldn't build a house on a bad foundation, would you? You need to know what you have on hand is something you can work with.

Mikes reply:

I can't discount anything when it comes to this project, the Block needs to be checked for cracks as well, so I agree.

I have read that the cast Cranks are more forgiving, in that area, than the forged ones. I read that Micky Thompson preferred the Cast over Forged for that reason, if my memory serves me, on that one.

Up until we pull this Crank, we believe it to be cast Armorsteel, at least that is what is stamped on it, the last removal of the Oil pan proved that. We recorded the number of the Crank when we were there.

[Dragncar]

There is nothing more forgiving about a cast crank than a good forging. Arma Steel is just high quality cast iron.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 242177P

Cranks can, and have, split in two and still stay together. Wouldn't have posted it otherwise. After a hard hit to the torque converter *and a broken harmonic damper* it's not something you can simply dismiss. I don't remember who posted this, but I found it on PY some time ago.



Even if a crankshaft looks fine at a glance, magnaflux is money well spent. You wouldn't build a house on a bad foundation, would you? You need to know what you have on hand is something you can work with.

Mikes reply:

I was told by a forum member that the Torque Converter, being attached to the Flexplate, actually flexes back and forth a little and would protect the Crank from getting damaged. However, I was moving slowly in a driveway with a root under an asphalt driveway that lifted the Trans. and caused all the damage that I sustained. Lost Trans., Torque Converter, Flexplate with rounded out bolt holes and a crack in the Harmonic Balancer. Going an other 300 miles on the engine underload did not help any. People, if you damage your drive train, tow it home. Now that I understand how these things work and the costs involved in repairing them, take it from me and call triple AAA.

[Kenth]

Kenth´s reply,

what has all this engine talk have to do in your TH400 thread?

You have started an engine thread, can you please keep the engine talk there?

Kenth´s out

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Kenth

Kenth´s reply,

What does all this engine talk have to do in your TH400 thread?

You have started an engine thread; can you please keep the engine talk there?

Kenth´s out

Mikes reply:

I became confused with the two Threads being close in title, for one thing I made a mistake. Secondly, I have asked the moderator, Why the different Threads were not showing up in the emails as they used to under their various names. The answer is there working on it and to leave it at that.

Once that is fixed, I won't have to go to my name and look through the Threads for what thread that I want to be in.

So, for all intents and purposes don't sweat the small stuff and bear with it, no one is perfect, certainly not you. I've had enough of you cry babies to last the rest of my life, your like condo castopo's (COPS).

These are the two different drawings, one is correct and easily understood, the other needs work, take from me, I got an "A" in drafting. The viewer may not know what left and right-side Bank is, the draftsman should have at least made a legend for that.

For example, the person sitting in the driver's seat looking out the windshield forward, on the driver's side, is on the left Bank!

[b-man]

Thread closed as the Turbo 400 rebuild has been finished. Please continue your 428 engine discussion in your new thread regarding that subject.