[NeighborsComplaint]

I have always been a fan of Holley carburetors due to their user friendly tuneability and never tried a Quadrajet. I had tried a couple Holley style carbs, most recently a rebuilt 800 Holley spreadbore double pumper that developed seam leaks in both floats and wouldn't fire the car this year when taking it out of storage. Both floats were full of fuel and the carb spilled over like a fountain. That was my fault as I hadn't tested the floats when I rebuilt it last year. I had thrown on the Quick Fuel Slayer I ran prior to the Spreadbore Holley to get it home. and left it on as I was too lazy to change it out.

Today, I decided to clean up and repaint the top end of the motor (the overflowing carb ate up the paint on the valley pan). Off came the carb and intake and I cleaned up everything and repainted the top end. When it came time to put the carb back in place, curiosity got the better of me and I grabbed the as-new Jet Stage 2 (Pontiac Spec) 800 CFM Qjet I bought from a forumite a couple of years off the shelf and popped it on.

The only issues (minor) I encountered were that my throttle cable (from a Holley equipped LS6 Chevelle) was too short to attach and used a Chevy-style ball stud. I drilled out the stud on the Qjet, bolted an extension to the back of the throttle lever and installed the ball stud off the Holley. I used a roller chain link plate from the hardware store as an extender and everything lined right up and provided full range of throttle operation. I also installed a throttle cable bracket from a Qjet equipped Chevelle I had on hand (planned ahead intending to swap out at some point).

The results? Meh.

No, just kidding, it fired right up, settled into a much lower, smoother idle than with either Holley with greatly improved cold and warm drivability without touching a thing. Once warmed up, I adjusted the idle mixture with a vacuum gauge and wound up right back where the carb was set, right out of the box. I drove it around the neighborhood and was pretty impressed how well it ran.

Under normal driving conditions and a hard, short-shifted romp, it runs fine on the mechanical pump only. I have recent (5 Yrs old) 3/8" repro lines w. return, stock tank, pickup and sock, Carter M6405 (large canister Muscle Car Series) and Holley Blue Street pump. The only downside is around 5K it now runs out of fuel (noses over) on the mechanical pump alone in first and second after a nose-up hard hit from a roll, something the Holleys never did. With the pusher pump on it does not run out of fuel and my seat of the pants dyno says it pulls just as hard to the limit as the Holley carbs did.

I do Iike the Qjet's smoother cold startup and improved drivability even with no additional tuning and keeping my finger off the fuel pump toggle around town isn't such a bad thing either. Almost forgot .... no more stinky exhaust.

Throttle cable extender ... neato:

[b-man]

Big thumbs up.

Now you know why so many people prefer them over other designs for street cars.

[Dragncar]

Holley spread bore carbs for me always had this fast idle you had to stab the throttle at stop lights to come down in RPM. Never liked them. 3310 ran circles around those things.
Still have a 650 DP and I think a 650 v secondary carbs in a basket.

[jhein]

My Ray Klemm QJ is fantastic. Smooth as silk on the low end for driveability but roars when you mash it.

Archie Somers, my engine builder, said to me, "never underestimate a good QJ"

[steve25]

As I have said for decades now, if GM brand super stock cars under NHRA rules can run very deep in the 9s with a Q-jet then how the Hell can it be bad mouthed like it has been!

[Cliff R]

Here are a couple of observations.

IF you like one of those "Stage 2" useless POS higher end "remanufactured" carbs as well as your Holleys you are comparing a very poor quality "generic" unit to them.

It's running out of fuel because they do NOT use a high flow N/S assembly in those, just the same junk everyone else is using in their "remanufactured" units.

The calibrations in those are "generic" and completely hit and miss. I haven't seen a single one of those to date where the power piston hanger arms weren't bent all out of whack and the throttle plates opened to a full 90 degrees.

So basically you are comparing bottom of the pile junk against Holley carbs y ou'd put some effort into.

So be warned at this point........IF you were to get your hands on one built with better parts, the correct parts, and calibrated exactly for your engine you'd find the biggest hammer in yout tool box and smash all your Holley carbs to pieces!.......LOL.....

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by steve25

As I have said for decades now, if GM brand super stock cars under NHRA rules can run very deep in the 9s with a Q-jet then how the Hell can it be bad mouthed like it has been!

Excellent point, Steve. Every time I hear an “expert” call the Q-jet “junk” I remind them of all the NHRA Stock and Super Stock national records, national event wins and world championships Q-jets had held over the years.

[Cliff R]

Five wins at the Pontiac event in Norwalk, two trips to the King of the Hill race that event, used the same carb since the mid-1980's on 5 different engines powering my Ventura, and never once had a single issue with it. Only took it apart to test some of the improved parts I'm making for this new fuel and minor tuning for increased power levels.

Nothing will outrun it either, and believe me we and they have tried. I was never able to do any dyno testing without someone throwing a big Holley or Holley clone on the engine to "see how much power this engine will really make".......only to have the Q-jet outrun it and everyone standing around the dyno room dumbfounded that the old "ugly" Q-jet made more power!..........

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Here are a couple of observations.

IF you like one of those "Stage 2" useless POS higher end "remanufactured" carbs as well as your Holleys you are comparing a very poor quality "generic" unit to them.

It's running out of fuel because they do NOT use a high flow N/S assembly in those, just the same junk everyone else is using in their "remanufactured" units.

The calibrations in those are "generic" and completely hit and miss. I haven't seen a single one of those to date where the power piston hanger arms weren't bent all out of whack and the throttle plates opened to a full 90 degrees.

So basically you are comparing bottom of the pile junk against Holley carbs y ou'd put some effort into.

So be warned at this point........IF you were to get your hands on one built with better parts, the correct parts, and calibrated exactly for your engine you'd find the biggest hammer in yout tool box and smash all your Holley carbs to pieces!.......LOL.....

When it comes to negativity, you never fail to deliver, Cliff.

The Jet Stage 2 carb has the .0135" needle and seat btw, not the standard .120".

[mgarblik]

The combination of the triple primary venturi and the sophisticated primary main metering circuit deliver light throttle and cruise mixtures that just can't be matched by off the shelf generic Holley carburetors. A Q-Jet properly tuned, is just a wonderful fuel and air mixer. The bad reputation and negative pet names for Q-jets comes from three primary issues IMO. 1. Since any Q-jet will physically bolt on any manifold for a spread bore carb, many, many Q-jets were mixed and matched over the decades and just dead wrong in so many ways for the application. With thousands of factory calibrations, how could this possibly work correctly?. 2. Early Q-jets did have some issues. The goofy initial needle and seat design, the well plug leaks, the float leverage issue, and a few others were addressed and corrected as production moved forward. 3. You need to have some understanding of carburetors and fuel delivery and some mechanical skills to work on a Q-jet. Modular Holley carburetors are extremely simple to take apart and jet. Also no metering rods to play into the tuning mix. For someone with minimal or beginners level skills, a Holley can be made to run decent pretty easily. A Q-jet is on a higher skill level to get right but you are rewarded with a great performing carburetor that has many people just shaking their head in amazement that a stock looking GM carburetor can perform that flawlessly.

[Cliff R]

Ya, for sure I resemble that remark.

I know it sucks for many out there but I'm a big dose of reality when it comes to these things.

Anyhow, IF you do well with one of those hunks of bovine excrement for sure stay away from a really nice 850cfm unit built exactly to your specs, because you'll probably take a hammer to that carb as well!

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by steve25

As I have said for decades now, if GM brand super stock cars under NHRA rules can run very deep in the 9s with a Q-jet then how the Hell can it be bad mouthed like it has been!

I’d agree with this but the benefit of a Holley is the in the spot tune ability from the outside . When I raced Q jets I never really had any problems but I do like a dual feed double pumper w mechanical secondaries for its simplicity and tun-ability . But that you can’t do the same or better w a w jet but for bracket racing it’s easy w a Holley. Easy access baby.

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

When it comes to negativity, you never fail to deliver, Cliff.

The Jet Stage 2 carb has the .0135" needle and seat btw, not the standard .120".

Hey man, Cliff has talked about these Stage 2 carbs for a long time, and most are what he claims, POS!! You may get a decent one out of many, but it is a crap shoot and more often than not, you will roll snake eyes!!! Cliff has built so many carbs over the years, including one for me, that a lot of us listen to his advice!!!

[Dragncar]

In High School everyone called Q Jets "Q Junk". Then a knowledgeable Auto Shop teacher showed us how good they could work.
But we still had a "Holley Box" in class full of Holley parts. Now I have my own Holley Box stuffed with even more high end Holley stuff.
I own Holley 650 DP, 3310 and 750 DP, 850 HP, 1000 HP, custom 1050 and Dale Cubic 1400 cfm Holley and am eyeing buying a 4150 all billet 1150 or 1200 cfm carb.
Have some nice Q jets and a big Thermoquad too.
I am not taking a hammer to any of my carbs. One day I will sell them, as a geezer.
They are all great and work well. I have a pile of Pontiac intakes and the best ones are not spread bore.
Besides, a Q jet belongs under a air cleaner where you can not see it. Just hear the howl.

[Sirrotica]

In my own experience, I used Q Jets on every one of my dirt cars. With the hood off of my car in the pits I heard sooooooo many comments, about how much better my car could run if I just would put a holley on it..............LMAO

I'd say the pictures in my signature pretty much tell the tale of winning with a Q jet, and Pontiac Stratostreak power.

Just to satiusfy the critics, I have tried holley carbs, and always found them inferior to the Q Jet. Many years ago I bought the Doug Roe book about Q Jets, and I wore that book out referencing his facts about how to properly make a Q jet run.

One other thing is holley really does need to be easy to tear down, and re-fidget all their inner workings, because I had the same experience as Cliff had. Once you had the carb all set up, your just left it alone. You didn't have to keep messing with float levels, and jetting continiously.

Been there done the holley thing, and went with what worked best for my program, the lowly, no respect Q jet.

One other thing is because of the bad rap that Q Jets got, I had tons of carbs given to me for free because as everyone thinks in the performance arena, if you want the fastest car on the track, or the street, you have to have a holley carb perched atop of the intake.

Currently though the hot setup is the edelbrock, that took a wonderful design from Carter, and made it into a monstrosity of a poor performing, cheap, POS.

[Dragncar]

What is the highest HP known from a Pontiac with a Q Jet on it ?
In other words, how much power are they good for ?

[PAUL K]

My guess would be Lynn McCarty's SS engine or Rick Mahoneys Fast Stock engine..... Both can knock off nines with ease.

[prostreet64]

My 79 Trans Am came with the Olds 403. I had Cliff build a 750 Q-jet for it in 2006. That carb stayed on the engine for 16 years. Never had an issue and only opened it up one time to replace the accel pump. Idle, throttle response and overall driveability were excellent. Jeff built an 800 model for my son's 69 Bird. It too has run perfectly for many years. Who knows, I might have one built for the new 463 at some point. A well built Q-jet will grow on you.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by Ram Air IV Jack

Hey man, Cliff has talked about these Stage 2 carbs for a long time, and most are what he claims, POS!! You may get a decent one out of many, but it is a crap shoot and more often than not, you will roll snake eyes!!! Cliff has built so many carbs over the years, including one for me, that a lot of us listen to his advice!!!

Have you owned/installed/tuned enough of these to support your opinion or did you just take someone's word for it and decide to wait a year for your carburetor and spend so much it had to be perfect?

The box it came in stated it was calibrated for 400-455 with a mild performance camshaft, aftermarket intake and headers. Sounds a lot like my motor. It fired at the turn of the key, idled, and ran very well so while calibration may not be perfect, it's a damn sight closed than a run of the mill rebuilder carb. They come with bronze bushed throttle shafts, sealed well plugs, 134" high flow needle and seat and elctric choke. I have no complaints for the $300 I spent on it ($550 retail new) and am actually pretty impressed.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by Ram Air IV Jack

Hey man, Cliff has talked about these Stage 2 carbs for a long time, and most are what he claims, POS!! You may get a decent one out of many, but it is a crap shoot and more often than not, you will roll snake eyes!!! Cliff has built so many carbs over the years, including one for me, that a lot of us listen to his advice!!!

If you haven't figured it out, Cliff is all about Cliff. He knows carburetors but is so quick to knock anything he didn't lay his hands on everything he says sounds like self-promotion to me instead of advice.

Have you owned/installed/tuned enough of these to support your opinion or did you just take someone's word for it and decide to wait a year for your carburetor and spend so much it had to be perfect?

The box it came in stated it was calibrated for 400-455 with a mild performance camshaft, aftermarket intake and headers. Sounds a lot like my motor. It fired at the turn of the key, idled, and ran very well so while calibration may not be perfect, it's a damn sight closed than a run of the mill rebuilder carb. They come with bronze bushed throttle shafts, sealed well plugs, 134" high flow needle and seat and elctric choke. I have no complaints for the $300 I spent on it ($550 retail new) and am actually pretty impressed.