[-DA]

I've got access to a '70 GTO for sale (white, vinyl top, 400ci/TH400, A/C, disk brake, HD suspension car). This things is mainly roller but just needs brake work to be a driver. doesn't have the original motor but does have '72 400 from a GrandPrix with most everything there.

Typical rust issues in the lower-rear area of sail panel and lower-rear corner of wheel wells to match. Needs a trunk floor, sheet metal between the deck lid and rear window, and a small portion of the pass. side rear floor. Also doesn't have front or rear lower valances (but does have front turn signal housings and trim).

Interior still has the seats and console but everything is in rough shape. Anything that was once soft is now cracked and dried (dash, interior panels, front bumper, etc).

I'd probly rate this car closer to a 6 than 5 by the Hemmings condition ratings and the owner is asking about that same price (i wonder if he's a member on here...?).

So, on to my question. Long term investment, is this car worth picking up to restore down the road? I'd tear into it enough to neutralize it's condition and get it on the road but that's it for probably another 5 yrs. i'm more into first gen firebirds but i love the 70 GTO styling. this opportunity fell in my lap so i'm not sure how easy it would be to find a slightly better condition car with fewer body issues. are they available or should this be something to jump on? thanks for any thoughts!!


-Dave

[trishieldchief]

Dave, of course it is, go get it !

[Rob B]

One thing I've noticed lately is even though there was around 40,000 total GTO's made in 1970, you don't see that many for sale as you do the other years. If the price is decent and you can swing it, why not?
Seems to be a popular year that everyone holds onto.

[-DA]

thanks for the replies... i finally went out and took some pictures if it helps anybody decide what this thing is worth.

Click here to see the photos.

-Dave

[F ROCK]

not to be negs... but it looks like a parts car to me..is that a freshened engine or just freshend engine paint? did you check under the carpet? posi? 500 bucks. i bet the guy wants 2000. whats that other car?

[slowgto]

That car is gone. There are much better projects than that out there. That is a $500 parts car to me.

[GTOWoody]

Easy answer. It's not that much worse then mine. A few more spots have rusted through, but I'm still going to have to replace mine. Cost, I would not go over a thousand, but would probably stay at $500.00 like the rest have mentioned. Worst case it looks 99% there. Looks like all the chrome is there, the engine, tranny, and rear end. Frame looks solid, so you can rebuild or part out. In my case I picked up a very solid '72 lemans that I will take the donor parts for mine and keep the GTO.

Food for thought if you are doing most of the work, then you can still make money if you want to sell after the rebuild. If you are having someone else do all the work, then you will be in the hole to sell. Just my 2 cents.

[Ram4king]

You will lose big if you try to restore that car! Run Forrest Run.........

[-DA]

the car next to it is a 1970 Lemans i believe. this dude has around 15 GTO's ranging from nice drivers to piles of metal worth only the title and tags (let's not discuss legal issues around that though). PHS's for many of them including the '70 i'm looking at.

some more info on the GTO: (beyond my first post)

all the trim is good and as it's stainless it really just needs some buffing. he's got a good set of fenders to go with the car. no carpet so the floors were easy to check out with only a few small holes in the pass rear footwell. ironically, the trunk drop panels and wheel wells look OK even though the sail panels, trunk floor and portions of the lower rear quarters have the cancer.

the motor came out of a '72 Grand Prix my shop restored a few years back so i know it'll run if everything is hooked up (didn't restore the motor... just pulled it and sold it). he's got all the goodies to fill the engine compartment like correct p/s, alt, a/c compressor, radiator and mounts, spacers, etc. Still has the original TH400 and 10-bolt open rear end in it.

the interior is all there but needs some serious lovin. oh, and it comes with a quality set of rally II's and trim rings.

My thoughts?? it all falls back to the cancer. is it getting eaten from the inside out in the rockers too or just the lower quarters from that da'gum vinyl top? the main body is nice and straight even though it all needs work. if it had the original motor, front and rear valances and a front bumper that was in better shape i'd say it'd be worth around $3k. as it sits now - not exactly running, not driving, potential rust issue and minus some pricey body panels- i'm thinking more like $1500. is that still too rich for the market?

-Dave

oh, and i'd be doing all the work.

[F ROCK]

just my opinion; yes; thats too much.
parts wise; i dont see much that you could sell: the engine; smog 400s are very available; i just bought a smogger 455 for 275$ i think you'll need heads to make horsepower with that engine. the rear and trans: used t400's go around 150 bucks on craigslist, the rear is worthless, the nose is broken, i didnt notice the condition of the hood but they are reproduced, so they arent hard to find. nice ralley II's? the correct trim rings in good condition would be a good find. not much useable in that interior. does it still have the boxed lower arms and swaybar? what about the fat front swaybar? those are reproduced too but would be nice to find on a parts car.
hows the decklid? those go for bucks in good condition. seatbelts?
JUST MY OPINION. i think its a parts car.it might not have 1500$ worth in parts. if its not original anyway; why not make an offer on a 70 or earlier lemans if he has it, in better shape, and build a clone? (or build a lemans). i say 70 or earlier because the 71 and 72 enduras are hard to find and very expensive.
we'd all like to see you in something cool that you'll be able to make progress on.

[-DA]

F Rock - good points. i'd be buying this to build and drive so parting it out doesn't interest me. although i think the good decklid, nice fenders (not in pictures), original hood (repros stink), straight but perhaps iffy body and a complete original rolling chassis with mentioned suspension components could easily pull more than $1500. with a little work even more. still not my interest though.

making a clone seems like a bad investment to me as the end result is only worth it's value in parts without the proper tags. if i'm gonna throw the same $10k+ in parts/materials to restore it why not get the return in value? of course, a base model GTO won't fetch tip-top dollar like a judge or 455 conv't.

and why a 70?... i like 'em. not to mention Rob B hit the nail on the head when he said you don't see many of them around. i see 68-9's all the time and don't really want one. i gotta have my head in it or i won't enjoy it. that's why i got a '67 firebird; too many camaros running around but i still liked the body style.

a car with a more friendly starting point is quickly becoming more appealing though which, i guess, seems to be the better option any way i slice it.

-Dave

[GTOWoody]

Here's the way I look at it. If you are looking for something to work on like me, then I look at it this way.

If you buy a car that looks better with only a little rust in the rear 1/4 and the floor. It could be a daily driver now. If you go to restore that car (properly) you are going to sand blast, repair metal, strip the frame and clean up all parts. Well if you buy a car in what looks to be bad shape, you haveto sand blast, repair metal, strip the frame and clean up all the parts. As long as all the parts are there and you are doing most of the work to get ready for paint, the only additional cost is some additional sheet metal. Not to mention it seems like the cars that are still good daily drivers have already been worked on and you could end up with more issues then you thought when you bought it, as well as the potential for missing parts.

Again, my thoughts are based around someone looking to do a lot of the work themselves. If you are paying some one the you have to add in additional hours at $50+ to replace the extra sheetmetal and so on. That is a money pit.

Let us not forget that the title says GTO! Let's face it, there were not as many GTO's produced as camaros, mustangs, or chevelles and no one is rushing to produce a whole new shell like the others. We need to save as many and as much of them as possible. Even if you doesn't go back to stock at GTO alive is better then one sitting a yard rusting away.

[F ROCK]

a non original GTO, doesnt fetch any more money than a nice clone.
that car needs more than ten grand. check out what they go for...
as long as you are happy.
woah, you have 67 firebird convert? a def. fave of mine. i guess if i'd seen one of these somwhat salvageable i'd be tempted, so i guess its all in what you like and what you can do.

[-DA]

Woody - i work for a restoration shop so i can't see paying someone to work on a car for me 'cause i really do enjoy it. and like you said $50/hr adds up real quick. my time is free and my friends' time is cheap (typically beer).

my perspective on finding a project car follows this: rust hides/gets EVERYWHERE and tweaked cars are annoying. this gto is dead straight and doesn't need full quarters by any means; i would, however, rip out at least the outer wheel wells to access the impossible to reach areas of the quarters to contain the rust. moreover, tell tale signs of rust in other areas means there are potentially longterm rust issues if not thoroughly and properly addressed... bottom seam of doors, floor bracing seams, cowl, etc. can all come back to haunt a beautiful car. might cost the same in materials but starting with a cleaner body just provides some peace of mind and less time invested. with this one i'd obviously have to tear it down a good ways to be satisfied. doable, but maybe not worth my time/money right now unless the price is right on the car. i.e. inexpensive

F Rock - my bird has a 4-speed and a 3.55 posi 12-bolt under it too. sitting at around 415hp makes it a lot of fun. if you didn't already find it here's my '67 Bird.

-Dave

[F ROCK]

holt sh@#$%$#t that bird is fantastic!!!

[mrrat1]

if you did the work on the Bird' (which is a beauty), and work at a resto shop I'd jump on the GTO.

[F ROCK]

Hey mrrat1; i'm not far from you, 10 mins from hammonton. have we met?

[Evil Stu]

Originally Posted by -DA

Woody - i work for a restoration shop so i can't see paying someone to work on a car for me 'cause i really do enjoy it. and like you said $50/hr adds up real quick. my time is free and my friends' time is cheap (typically beer).


F Rock - my bird has a 4-speed and a 3.55 posi 12-bolt under it too. sitting at around 415hp makes it a lot of fun. if you didn't already find it here's my '67 Bird.

-Dave

Originally Posted by F ROCK

holt sh@#$%$#t that bird is fantastic!!!

Originally Posted by mrrat1

if you did the work on the Bird' (which is a beauty), and work at a resto shop I'd jump on the GTO.

What are You asking us for?

Nice Bird.

[-DA]

Thanks for the compliments.

Unfortunately, body and paint was literally the only thing we left to someone else on my 'bird. I've picked up on it since then but this car was mainly built before I dove head first into muscle cars, restos and custom fab work. My dad and I working on it though is what got me into it all in the first place.

Originally Posted by Evil Stu

What are You asking us for?

Nice Bird.

you're right, i've got the means to build this car properly. i suppose it was more of a "what's the dollar value" question as i'm not really familiar with GTO's and Hemmings price guides can only get you so far. i've always liked goats but never looked into actual costs, availability and whatnot so i started the thread.

-Dave

[chicagoland]

Me, I think this GTO should be saved, since time is passing too darn fast from the muscle car era. If it was flattened by a bulldozer, then...