[Goatman]

Larry, all your posts are opened in the same "positive" manner.......untill someone disagrees with you.

The quote you chose illustrates a point, nothing more. I said twice already that I'm happy for the guy (I noticed that wasn't the quote you chose to display). I also stated the D-ports have their place in the hobby (another quote you over looked). What more do you want? If you're looking for someone to pop up and say that D-ports work just as good as E heads or round ports, well, you'll be waiting a long time, its not going to happen.

For me and it seems like quite a few other members, its a waste of time and money to make D-ports work. That's my opinion, its not negative, its just our opinions. If all we had were D-ports, we'd be getting our asses kicked all over the country. That's also a fact, but to you, its negativity.

Maybe its your attitude that you should question?

[Larry Navarro]

goatman...my attitude is not the reason for debate here...sorry but your "psychological warfare" won't work here. acknowledge your own statement that its opinions that differ, NOT attitudes.
someone chooses an avenue to pursue a specific goal, even though its not the "popular" way to do it, you get uptight.
if its not "instant gratification" you and others get all flustered.
take a chill pill. maybe you might learn something from those guys in the '68.

[Goatman]

When I'm looking for advice on how to go slower than I am now, I'll give them a call.

I don't need to get "flustered". I have made my temporary head choice and I'm comfortable with it. Again, what as the purpose of this post? You seem to be trying to prove something to people that just isn't true or practicle for anyone other than S/S racers, of which I count exactly 0 on this board.

[Larry Navarro]

OKAY...They're in the record books...you're not.

[zedo]

http://www.nhra.com/stats/stk_record.html


Here's the link to the NHRA Stock record standings as of today, class by class.

Larry, what class is that Pontiac in, in Stock, so we can compare that e.t. to the current record ??

I'm curious.



[This message has been edited by zedo (edited 09-24-2001).]

[Goatman]

WOW! I guess they'll be on TV with the President next, huh?

You'll have to excuse me if I don't give a rats ass.

[71 T/A]

Presently I run D-ports but my car runs 12s. I could have bought E-heads but I wasn't sure if my cam really needed that much flow.
However, if I wanted to go 10s or quicker, I know I'd be looking for Ram Air IVs or buying E-heads.

There have been a few cases where people have run 9s (maybe better) with D-ports but with huge rollers and very light cars.

[Goatman]

Watch your attitude TA, you might piss someone off talking like that. After all, a 2300lb car isn't light, its very heavy, for a fast D-port car or a Geo Metro.

Dude, don't waste your time. He's trying to keep hope alive when the fat lady has already finished singing and woofed down a dozen of Crispy Creme's finest.

Some people like beating their heads on walls..........no matter how much it hurts.

[This message has been edited by Goatman (edited 09-24-2001).]

[71 T/A]

While you've made some good points, Goatman, Larry never says that D-ports are the way to go, with no exceptions, if you're seeking Butler type power or 8s or 9s. He says they can make a Pontiac haul. True, they can. Keep in mind, the E's have only been around since about 1994. People were running well with Pontiacs for those 30 or so years you mentioned.

E-heads, however, can and in many cases, have made it easier to go fast. When you run 10s, you can achieve that with Ds, Es or round port iron. Your car runs 10.60s with Ram Air IVs which is great. Some other people can't run that well with Es or D-ports with similar parts as yours. Your combo likes the heads you've chosen. It is possible (stranger things have happened) that you would slow down or run the same with Es. As you know, flow is important but so is velocity.

The combination of parts and not just the heads is probably most important.

[Brian Baker]

Gee, I sure am glad that thinkers like Goatman weren't running the show in the 60's regarding the space program, otherwise we would have never landed on the moon.

It's not about how long, or how much, G-man. It's about THEY DID IT. Just like this 10 second d-port 400.

[Goatman]

Brian, 71TA, Larry, I am not questioning the merits of our Pontiac history, nor am I saying that D-ports can't be made to work. If you care to look back, this is about the third time I've made this statement. All I am saying is, there are easier ways to do things. That's it and that's all.

This is not the first time that Larry has "baited the hook" so to speak and its not hard to see why me makes posts like this. He obviously feels that D-ports can be made to work just like E-heads and he's dead wrong. Not even RAIV's can do that. That is a simple fact. He'll never say that, because then people could then offer proof to him to the contrary. He just dances around the subject, not really saying anything, but never admitting that D-ports aren't anything special either.

I just think its time to stop playing games and to take advantage of what is being made available to us. If we all took Larry's position, no one would ever buy anything aftermarket and then there wouldn't be an aftermarket and I just think that's wrong as well.

As for the space program, you see, after the first shuttle went up, I would have done the silly thing and taken what I've learned and re-engineered the systems to make sure our boys went faster and farther on less fuel and with more safety to boot.......but, wait, that's what NASA did too. I guess I would have fit right in. You don't see too many 30 year old Space Shuttles going up anymore do you Mr. Baker?

I wonder why? Thanks for that point, I never would have made the connection without you! I love it when a plan comes together.

[Larry Navarro]

goatman...becareful when dislodging that hook!!
in one breath you say D-ports CAN be made to work...then in the other, you say they can't.
make up your mind.
what's funny and i'm sure others will agree, is that people throw money at E-heads in hopes to make them outperform D-ports...and in cases THEY DON'T!!
this is not a blanket statement on the performance of E-heads. they do have there place!
10...9 second cars, maybe?
like i've said before, i have nothing against the E-heads, but the fact remains that you DON'T have to have them to go fast. the folks that continually perpetuate the myth that you DO need them, will only disappoint those who try them; only to fall short of their expectations.
i seen and heard it locally.
12 sec. e-head, roller cam combo is not impressive!
we've seen that kinda performance with d-port cars, way before the E-head stuff came around.
YOU can't argue that FACT!

[Goatman]

Larry, you're not paying attention. I said that D-port heads CAN be made to work, but its not worth the effort.

Larry, it works both ways, people have thrown all kinds of money into D-ports trying to go fast and have been just as dissapointed. That's all in the head porter, right? Same thing goes the other way, Larry. That's not a "maybe" its a fact as well.

Tell you what, you take the best D-ports out there and I'll take the best round port heads out there and we'll build motors for them. Any bets as to which one will make more HP? I know you won't take that one, will you Larry? I didn't think so. You'll run out of volume before I run out of velocity.

The FACT that ONE GUY can put a car into the 10's (and just barely) in S/S doesn't impress me much. But his percentage is probably right in line with the number of 10 second D-port cars out there..... Not many at all.

[Ccass]

Ok, That was interesting.

....2 years and ten times ago.

I think we have an ample amount of past topics that debate the general plus's & minus's of D-port vs. E-heads.

[This message has been edited by Ccass (edited 09-25-2001).]

[KS circutguy]

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[KO]

"You can win more than that in the NMCA/NSCA"
I don't think so. Even in Pro Street when contingencies were at their peak the most you could win was $12000. I've raced with NMCA since 1988 and worked for them in 1998. NMC had only 7 races, NHRA 19.

[KO]

Another point: NHRA allows big block Chevy applications to use GM Performance signature series heads which are actually Edelbrock Performer heads. Since the Edelbrock Pontiac head is essentially a aluminum Ram Air IV, they should be allowed if GM issued a part number.

[Goatman]

I also hear that the Edelbrock Chevy head is better used as a boat anchor than a performance peice. This is straight from a crew chief on a pro-stock team that I know from Fla.

Between sponsors and contigencies along with earnings, you will make more in the NMCA/NSCA, if you play your cards right. That's why guys like Tony Christian can afford to do that as a full time job.

I think I have proven my point and no longer wish to dwell on such a rediculous topic. Like CCass said, its all been said before.

[Scott Misus]

Brian, you buffoon:

They put a man on the moon with the BEST components available AT THE TIME. They did't land a man on the moon in 1969 by using the best technology from 1936, did they?

Bad analogy.

[Mr_GTO]

Goatman, when you bringing that beast over to my house again? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]