[sdbob]

In our 'mind' we still think we can then reality takes over.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by sdbob

In our 'mind' we still think we can then reality takes over.

After retiring last year after 42 years in the auto industry, I already miss the luxury of having access to alignment equipment, brake lathes, engine analyzers, etc. I've been spoiled with being able to do all the repairs and maintenance on my cars my entire life. I think I'll look into some of the newer home wheel alignment stuff becoming available. I can't stand the idea of paying some kid to try to line up my old cars or turn the drums, etc. At almost 62, I'm still game for most stuff. Yikes.

[Formulajones]

I've bought most of that equipment and do nearly everything here. Most of the old school mechanics I knew and trusted, and learned from decades ago, have long since retired. It's hard to find a good one now, especially one that will listen to what you're looking for or looking to accomplish, and on top of that, treat your classic with a careful hand.

[rolling money pits]

Are these the “good” Johnson lifters mentioned through here?

They have the band mentioned previously but, they’re not “expensive” by any means.

https://pontiacspeedshop.com/valvetr...appet-lifters/

[wh33lman]

Hmm...I purchased mine directly from Topline.
There was only one part number listed in their catalog for 6.6l &7.5l Pontiacs, (A-0951).
While there is no part number on the box, the guy at the distribution center wrote "BO951" on the boxes.

[Tom Vaught]

951 is the part number for the Muskegon Johnson/ Top Line lifters

Tom V.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by rolling money pits

Are these the “good” Johnson lifters mentioned through here?

They have the band mentioned previously but, they’re not “expensive” by any means.

https://pontiacspeedshop.com/valvetr...appet-lifters/

Those have been out of stock on that site, if he has any they are fairly old stock. Judging by the price, probably have been out of stock for several years. If you want to get an idea of how much they have went up, price them now…that link is how the HLJ use to be priced before 2020.

[jonmachota78]

Im gearing up to get my old 400 going again. I bought a new crower cam and my machinist is having the old lifters from 1992 reground. He said he's had zero failures doing this.

[dataway]

Never thought of that, I assume as long as they are not dished that re-grinding might just take off a few thousandths.

[Quad]

Originally Posted by jonmachota78

Im gearing up to get my old 400 going again. I bought a new crower cam and my machinist is having the old lifters from 1992 reground. He said he's had zero failures doing this.

My machine shop talked me into doing this on a set of used crower lifters 4 years ago. So far no issues what so ever.

[Sirrotica]

A machine shop guy told me years ago (about 50 years ago) that the lifters are hardened about .060 deep on the face. As long as you don't go beyond that you're still on the hardened portion, not sure if that was good info, I just remembered him telling me that as I read this.....

[dataway]

I'm sure the reliable data is not out there, but, I'd love to see a breakdown on the circumstances of all the lifter failures ..

Spring pressures compared to those used in 70's.
Cam lobe profiles compared to those used in the 70's.
Average lift compared to the 70's

To just get a handle on if we expect more of our valve train now, than we did then.

[jonmachota78]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

A machine shop guy told me years ago (about 50 years ago) that the lifters are hardened about .060 deep on the face. As long as you don't go beyond that you're still on the hardened portion, not sure if that was good info, I just remembered him telling me that as I read this.....

I heard the same thing about regrinding valve stems

[Cliff R]

NEVER grind or re-surface the face of a valve stem. They are only hardended a few thou deep and you can and will get right into "soft" material. This results in them pitting-out very quickly when placed back in service.

I've lost count of how many engines I've been into that had than process done to the valves and they pitted, chunked out and failed in short order.

The engine that was in the Ventura way back in the mid-1980's when I bought it was a CLASSIC example of this. The 6X heads on the 400 had be "rebuilt" by a machine shop. They resurfaced the face of the valve stems and ALL of them where chunking pieces off and failing MISERABLY in just a few thousand miles of use. Factory valves will go zillions of miles with stock stamped steel rockers "sliding" on them and be in perfect shape in that area when you tear it down for a rebuild......FWIW......

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by dataway

Never thought of that, I assume as long as they are not dished that re-grinding might just take off a few thousandths.

They have to be ground to a crown, convex, so they rotate on the cam lobe. I would also be more comfortable having 30-50 year old USA made stuff refurbished than buying the crap that they are selling us today.

[dataway]

The crown is typically .0015 - .002" .. so not much of a concern if the lifter is not badly dished.

For instance a .002" dish would create about .004" loss of material to regrind the crown.

I had an original OEM lifter that after about 100k miles dished to the point it had a hole in the center of the face ... interestingly it did not self destruct, and the engine ran fairly well. So the hardening on OEM lifters in the 60's must have been pretty deep or that lifter would have ground itself down into a mess in no time. Of course I have no idea when the hole appeared ... I guess it could have been in the process of self destruction and I just caught it in time.

[Sirrotica]

FWIW, being I made my living twisting wrenches back in the so called "good old days", I have run across a few cars that had lost the function of the lobe lifting the tappet abilities (wiped cam). What you would commonly find is a flat/nearly cam lobe and a slightly dished lifter. This would usually take around 50,000 miles to show up, and it was usually due to someone neglecting oil changes.

It didn't show up in 20 minutes upon engine break in, matter of fact when I worked in numerous GM dealerships we never did a 20 minute break in, flat rate doesn't give you time to do that. Put the cam and lifters in, coat everything with EOS, adjust the lifters if applicable before you started it by rolling the pushrod between your fingers, then give it 1/2 a turn. Fire it up, check for leaks, and ship it. The engine would run a long time after having this renewal of cam and lifters, shows how much better quality parts were back then.

If you think about it when the engines are built at GM they run them on natural gas for a minute, just to make sure they will start, and not have any funny noises. There's no cam break in done it goes in the car and probably idles most of the time on the way to the dealer. There's no quantity of gas in the tanks when they're shipped, just enough to run the car up on the car hauler, or railcar, and unload them at the dealerships. They do occasionally run out of fuel when being unloaded. I've been called out of the service department more than once to push dead cars that won't run off the hauler.

Things have changed, but not for the better.

[Formulas]

Tim Corcoran had a slew of older lifters for sale, not sure if he is sold out

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

FWIW, being I made my living twisting wrenches back in the so called "good old days", I have run across a few cars that had lost the function of the lobe lifting the tappet abilities (wiped cam). What you would commonly find is a flat/nearly cam lobe and a slightly dished lifter. This would usually take around 50,000 miles to show up, and it was usually due to someone neglecting oil changes.

It didn't show up in 20 minutes upon engine break in, matter of fact when I worked in numerous GM dealerships we never did a 20 minute break in, flat rate doesn't give you time to do that. Put the cam and lifters in, coat everything with EOS, adjust the lifters if applicable before you started it by rolling the pushrod between your fingers, then give it 1/2 a turn. Fire it up, check for leaks, and ship it. The engine would run a long time after having this renewal of cam and lifters, shows how much better quality parts were back then.

If you think about it when the engines are built at GM they run them on natural gas for a minute, just to make sure they will start, and not have any funny noises. There's no cam break in done it goes in the car and probably idles most of the time on the way to the dealer. There's no quantity of gas in the tanks when they're shipped, just enough to run the car up on the car hauler, or railcar, and unload them at the dealerships. They do occasionally run out of fuel when being unloaded. I've been called out of the service department more than once to push dead cars that won't run off the hauler.

Things have changed, but not for the better.

Agree!

During my latest Lease Truck paperwork changeover the sales guy recommended taking the truck to the dealership,
after 200 miles to have the oil changed ("on my dime").

I drove the vehicle 3500 miles and THEN took the vehicle in for the oil change. Vehicle runs great, no noises, no
valve train failure, etc and great mileage with the 10 speed trans.

So the engine line info posted in correct and the dealer just wants a quick $75 to change oil and a filter at 200 miles
that is NOT really necessary.

Tom V.

[326HO-Lemans]

Originally Posted by jonmachota78

Im gearing up to get my old 400 going again. I bought a new crower cam and my machinist is having the old lifters from 1992 reground. He said he's had zero failures doing this.

Anybody have experience re-heat treating lifters?
Could it be done on the new soft lifters?


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