[zedo]

Well I've got the painting bug again recently, comes around every 10 years or so. I want to paint my cars, they really need it. Fun too.

Anyway, there's 5 types of paints available that are of any interest for my old Pontiac. Lacquer, Synthetic Enamel, Acrylic Enamel, Acrylic Urethane, and Polyurethane. All but Lacquer can be "catalyzed" with an isocyanate hardener, nasty stuff, can kill you if you get too much of it in your body. Absorbs through the skin too (need a damn good repirator). But rock-hard glossy finish is the results.

I really wanted to put black Imron (a polyurethane) on my '70 GTO for durability, but have heard it will not have as much gloss as a Acrylic Urethane, from many sources. Also, I'm thinking base/clear for longer durability. Now I'm leaning towards acrylic urethane.

The question: What are your experiences with these paints, how many have you used, and what's the best. Especially, anyone ever try Imron ?? What's on YOUR car ??

Thanks all.

[zedo]

Well I've got the painting bug again recently, comes around every 10 years or so. I want to paint my cars, they really need it. Fun too.

Anyway, there's 5 types of paints available that are of any interest for my old Pontiac. Lacquer, Synthetic Enamel, Acrylic Enamel, Acrylic Urethane, and Polyurethane. All but Lacquer can be "catalyzed" with an isocyanate hardener, nasty stuff, can kill you if you get too much of it in your body. Absorbs through the skin too (need a damn good repirator). But rock-hard glossy finish is the results.

I really wanted to put black Imron (a polyurethane) on my '70 GTO for durability, but have heard it will not have as much gloss as a Acrylic Urethane, from many sources. Also, I'm thinking base/clear for longer durability. Now I'm leaning towards acrylic urethane.

The question: What are your experiences with these paints, how many have you used, and what's the best. Especially, anyone ever try Imron ?? What's on YOUR car ??

Thanks all.

[jim darlington]

Zedo ,
Painted alot of Harleys years ago with Imron . Today the bikes look good yet . No paint chips and the gloss held up well .
Now I use Dupont chromabase basecoat / clearcoat . Why you ask ? It's user friendly . I'm able to take old Pontiac colors and convert them into todays colors. The paint last for a long time . If a customer brings the car back for spot repair , it can be done easily and with a good color match .
From your post , it sounds like you have alot of painting experiance . If so then use the system that works well with you .
You kow what I'm talking about if your in this business . Just my .02 worth .

[zedo]

Jim,

Thanks a lot for input, believe me, I appreciate it.

I've had a lot of paint jobs done in the past, from straight lacquer and enamel to BC/CC AE to BC/CC urethane. But I'm not in the business, although I have done a few jobs for myself and for money to keep the wolf away at times- (they were straight lacquer or enamel, and catalyzed AE.) I also worked in a body shop doing bondo/primer/prep work and lacquer repairs for 3 years during 1984-87. But by no stretch am I a professional painter. I do try to keep informed on the systems available though.

The painting products have become so advanced and expensive, and the ISO's dangerous, that I'm looking for as much info as possible on the systems before I paint my 2 cars over again. This will be my first time out using catalyzed urethanes. I'd like to paint my 2 cars myself, but now I realize I'd need a supplied air respirator for true safety, and preferably a spray booth to get a prof. looking job. Thanks again for info.

Chromabase is an Acrylic Urethane right ??

[J.C.you]

Agree with Jim, have had sucess with Dupont chromabase base, clear. Also color matching for spot repairs, blends great. You might consider Nason b/c under this same brand, cheaper, just as good for entire repaints.

------------------

[6567GTO]

DuPont Chromabase is what was used on my ... "Waxer". I like the results.

------------------
Life is too short. Don't be a dick! (That is unless of course you're dealing with the Taliban)

[This message has been edited by 6567GTO (edited 11-25-2001).]

[zedo]

hahaha- I like the waxer comment.

My Firebird has been repainted 3 times in the last 20 years. It was a silver enamel repaint job, bad quarters, when we got it in the 80's. We had the quarters replaced with patch panels, and black BC/CC Acrylic Enamel put on. That was good for a few years, but then the clear delaminated and started to peel, a Sherwin Williams defect. So then I stripped the whole thing and did a white lacquer job in 1990. Well that looked good for a few more years, but then the rockers got rusty and came through. From driving here in Pa., the new quarters rotted again !! So now it's been stripped again, will get quarters again and rockers, and either URETHANED or IMRON-ed. I want these paint jobs to last already, sick of doing them over.

When I put my GTO back together in 1990, I didn't even bother painting it after all the bad luck I had with paying shops for paint jobs. It just wasn't worth it !! So I primed it and painted it flat black !!

Well now I realize that the old lacquer and enamels we were using are pretty crappy for holdout and UV protection, actually pathetic. So the GTO will also be done with a modern catalyzed urethane or poly-u.

I have to admit, the holdout of Imron is damn tempting. Guys with airplanes clean the stuff by wiping it with lacquer thinner, and it doesn't hurt the paint !! Now THAT'S tough !! I've also talked to guys with 15+ year old Imron jobs, and they say they still look good. But the new acrylic urethanes are supposed to be higher gloss and more color selection. Imron has the worst iso content, too, very toxic while spraying.

[This message has been edited by zedo (edited 11-25-2001).]

[jim darlington]

JC ...
I wouldn't recommend the Nason brand you were talking about . Yes the cost factor is to our benefit but there are a couple of things you must look at .
1 - the base color will not match the manufactores color chip .You can't use it on a spot repair on any of todays cars . It won't even match it self if you need to do a spot repair . The color was made only for a complete overall on a cheaper paint job . ie Maaco .
2 - the clear is a spin off of 7500 & 7600 without all the UV protection properties . Check it out a couple of years from now .
Nason paint line was made to compete with all the generitic paint out there . It does have it's place in the paint world but not on old GTO's .Maybe Chebbies !

Zedo ......Chromabase base is a spin off of acrylic enamel with out a hardner . It uses a reducer .However you can use a hardner . It helps on the paint chips on front rubber bumpers . The clear is a poly urathane . For excellent results use Chroma Premire clear .

[jim darlington]

Zedo ,
BTW Sherwin Williams was known for it's clear peeing off . That's why alot of shops got away from it and switched paint systems . Hell I can remember back in the 80's when we used it . A customer would bring the car back at a later date and when we would tape over what was painted before . when we took the tape off .... the clear would come off with it . Thank god those nightmares are behind us now . Sherwin Williams would never admit they had a problem .

[J.C.you]

Jim, agree with you on the clear Nason. I've been shooting the Nason base for entire repaints. Stated so in the earlier post. One way to use Nason for spot repair is to purchase too much paint upon initial purchase. Still alot cheaper than chromabase. You can store leftover paint and reuse in case of spot repair needed. If you want UV protection you can shoot the chromabase clear over the Nason base. Since Zedo was talking black color I didn't consider spot repairs a factor.

------------------

[ChrisTransAm78]

Does Por 15 work well? I just got some and am hoping as many around here (Austin, Tx) said it was good stuff. Just don't want it to ever come back!

[larry davis]

Most all the major players (Sherwinn-Williams, Ditzler, PPG, Dupont, House of Colors, etc...)have an excellent top end product.
I currently have House of Color candy carmel in a urethane on my 78 T/A. It's been on it for 11 years & has held up well, but is in need of a new paint job now. HOC products are expensive!
I have used the Sherwinn-Williams Sunfire line of urethanes on my Chevelle & Vega waqon. I really like it better than any other product I've tried. The amount of metallic dust (flake), depth of color, gloss, and ease of the entire system to use is excellent. The price is good as well. I like the base coat / clear coat system best.
Make sure you follow their procedures & utilize the recommended additives/reducers.
I believe Sherwinn-Williams has upgraded/changed it to another name, but it's still the same product. Check out their web site.

[SSMAN66]

I've been restoring GTO's for nearly 13 years, and here is my experience with various types of paint:

lacquer - Very easy to work with....quick to prepare, shoot, and dry. If you make a mistake you can sand it out and reshoot an hour later. The downside is that it's somewhat soft for the first few months (while residual thinner evaporates). This also tends to dull the finish (shrinkage), and requires a 2nd color sanding and buffing after 3-6 months. Lacquer seems to chip (and/or tear) easily.

acrylic urethane (basecoat/clearcoat) - More complicated preparation and application....you must adhere to the directions without fail (short pot life). The finish coat can be color sanded and buffed after 48 hours. The finish has a very high gloss, but is still somewhat brittle and easy to chip......better than lacquer, but still not great.

acrylic enamel (basecoat/clearcoat) - Similar preparation and application as urethane....same dry time, etc. The finish has incredible luster and seems to be much tougher than urethane. I use acrylic enamel for everything I paint.

Email me if you want to see some pics.

I hope this helps.