[TedRamAirII]

Which Head Gaskets dont have a metal Fire Ring? I'm confused!

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

[QUOTE=steve25;6470920] This comment of mine from post 750(yikes!!!!!) was in regards to your noise issue, not anything dealing with a future build. [/QUOT]

Sorry, I mis- read that, I did check with Butler Performance, when I bought the "041" Cam and Johnson Lifters, that I would "not" have to modify the Valve seats with this combo. of parts. We did not have to modify the spring pockets either. It turned out that when the Heads were off, we found out that the Intake Valve Boss/seats were cut from the factory. The Head rebuilder said he was going to cut the Exhaust Valve Boss/seat, but changed his mind later. He fit the Exhaust seats with a tight-fitting Hat type seal and the intake got the Black with a metal band type seal.

As far as those Splash Shields are concerned, they remain for now. If you are stating they may be the cause of the noise, I will check that area, once it is running, with the stethoscope/rod tool. I am going to pull each spark plug to isolate which Piston is slapping too.

[tom s]

The shields don’t make noise,they split and end up off the springs and laying in the head.Tom

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Which Head Gaskets don't have a metal Fire Ring? I'm confused!

Mikes reply:

There was no known metal Piston "O"- rings on the Stock Head gaskets, that were removed from this particular motor, from the factory.

I bought the Head gaskets from Butler Performance and the part number is in the previous posts. They came with the metal surrounding the Piston area, on both sides of the gasket. Once the Heads are pulled tight to the Block, could there be a transference of an acoustical nature between the Head and the Block? Therefore, if the Piston slap already exists in my motor, is this the possible reason that I hear them slap now.

[rolling money pits]

The head gasket’s fire ring will not transmit any sound you could hear/discern over and above normal engine noise.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by tom s

The shields don’t make noise; they split and end up off the springs and laying in the head. Tom

We will have to remove the Valve covers for a look at that area if we determine that the issue. I can hear Lou running the Engine now, getting rid of some minor leaks and exhaust noise as we speak.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by rolling money pits

The head gasket’s fire ring will not transmit any sound you could hear/discern over and above normal engine noise.

Mikes reply:

Piston slap is "not" a normal noise, but if it exists, will it be heard via the Head Gaskets, that are New with the Metal, that "did not" exist before?

Is it possible, I won't hold you to any Auto diagnostic.

Also, the old used Head gasket is made entirely of plate thin steel and we checked it with a magnet and it stuck to it. Perhaps with the older gaskets, being steel throughout, it has more surface area to lock down and hold, so as not to ever vibrate like this particular gasket is possibly doing?

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mikes procedure for safety when working under a Vehicle.

First, I want to say, is what "not" ever to do. I was out in the field, in the sand, rapeing a fuel tank out of an old Dodge van, working alone, "never work alone". It was supported on a car jack, "no" wheel on the D.S. rear. Even though I was young and fast, I was watching the jack while I worked. I got the gas tank out, just before it fell.

Today, I believe in safety first. We had four cinder blocks and am working on a solid pavor driveway. I need to go up high enough to pull the trans. out and then go back in. We already blocked up the front and left the back of the car on the ground. We pulled the Trans. back and dropped it on a motorcycle jack stand, that resembles a forklift. We tied the Trans. to the MJ with rope to keep it from falling. We block up the car from the center under the foot with the floor jack. High enough to use two cinder blocks per side, orientated as they are used in construction, which is the strength of the block. Hole side up. Add a piece of lumber in our case a 2"x 8" x 16" PT board. Block up under the lower "A"-frame on both sides. Leave the floor jack under the foot as a safty.

Installation is different, we have to block up the rear of the car for that procedure. We went out and bought 8 cinder blocks, two under each leaf spring and two under each sub- frame connector. Use the same wood as before on these areas. The sub-frame connectors are blocked in front of the wheels from the back. This gives you six solid points that won't move. Push the vehicle to make sure, better to find out now than later if there is a problem. Use new blocks, don't depend on used ones, they are $2.23 each. We then use our jack stands and extra floor jacks under the rear axle and anywhere else for safty sake. Use your bottle jacks for safty sake also. I won't depend on jack stands alone EVER.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by tom s

If he keeps it a street car he won’t need an aftermarket block, it would take a solid roller cam and duration of 200 @ 200 lift to need one. IMHO, Tom

Mikes reply:

I have seen that kit that is an add on to reinforce the webbing in the lifter Vally area.

Has anybody cut the entire center webbing out in the lifter Vally area and welded in a new aftermarket billet or cast unit? Do they even make one in the aftermarket world, for any blocks? Keeping the Lifter area to bore and sleeve, them.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Well, my roommate just got done eliminating any exhaust noise from our recent dismemberment of the Trans. to the Engine. He fixed any oil leaks, usually cutting back hose lines or tightening hose clamps.

He found zero noise that he can hear by just listening with the ear.

He put the Stethoscope to the Motor and heard common sounds that you would expect.

We deduce that the noise that we heard between 1,000-2,000 RPM is gone.

Before we let the car down to check it under a load, we want to pull each spark plug, one at a time, to see if there is any change, both by the ear and using the Stethoscope.

Lou, ran the Trans. through each Gear and they worked.

Further testing to come, let's hope the Motor stays this way, "noiseless".

It is a good chance that the Flexplate, shim and 1/8" plate being "out of round" was the problem. I did use brake quiet on both sides of the shim and one side of the plate. We used the ARP bolts with the chemical provided on all bolts. We torqued down the bolts to ARP bolt specs. I just hope it stays quiet.

Mike out.

P.S. This motor has been painted about four times over the last 10 years, today is the correct Pontiac Blue.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Here are a few more pictures, while I was under construction with this Vehicle...

[Dragncar]

You painted the engine under the timing cover ? The gasket surfaces and all the rest ?

[mgarblik]

I would do a coupled things to help your chances of success with this engine. I would put the timing cover on with just a couple bolts. Then trace around the outside of the cover on the block with a pencil or a thin line Sharpie. Next get some lacquer thinner or carburetor spray and wet a rag. remove ALL the paint inside your traced area. There is enough painted area inside that front cover to clog up the oil pump screen, guaranteed. Take my word on that. The paint will not stay on that smooth oily front block face. Good luck with it.

[Formulas]

...

[tom s]

I would be getting rid of those rubber hose to each carbs.You can buy after market hard lines for 66 Tripowers.Those hoses have contributed to the demise of hundred of tripower carbs over the years.Tom

[Kenth]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Mikes reply:

There was no known metal Piston "O"- rings on the Stock Head gaskets, that were removed from this particular motor, from the factory.

This suggests that the moonshiner reused the factory head gaskets after he put 7 piston and rods backwards into the engine?

[MatthewKlein]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

You painted the engine under the timing cover ? The gasket surfaces and all the rest ?

The paint limits Acoustic Coupling

[Sun Tuned]

If metal in the head gasket potentially causes “Acoustic noise”…

I sure hope he don’t get around any chevrolet engines that had factory steel shim gaskets.

Might need ear muffs for those…

[Formulas]

You have to ground engine parts PRIOR to any assembly to dissipate stray noises so they do not collect then reflect in such a manner that the human auditory detection devices will recieve and translate to the grey mater department that there is a impending problem in the recipitory section in any given ICE. build

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by Formulas

...

X2!!!

I believe you're suggesting to lose the cheap clear filter. I almost said that earlier. Trying to stay away from this train wreck. I was lucky as he!! that my car didn't burn to the ground because of one of those cheap POS!!! Came apart and doused my engine bay with gas. Thank God I had good spark plug wires!