[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by roger1

It really is and the torque is incredible too.
I don't know why Lunati says this cam gives a "choppy" idle. Sounds pretty smooth to me.

Roger, I enjoyed reading this entire thread today. First, to your comment about choppy idle - fuel injection setups generally tend to smooth the idle on a "choppy" cam compared to a carburetor application of same cam. The fuel metering is more precise and the ability to adjust for variances is vast, so no surprise there. Great numbers.

As so many have responded, you have done the hobby a great service in this thread. You have given a master class in patience, planning for dependencies, being methodical and believing in your ability to just do what was necessary. Call yourself an amateur or hobbyist if you like - many professionals could learn a thing or two about how to do things correctly from your approach. The results are the fruits of your vision, your approach and your resolve. Many will be inspired from this effort and what was formerly too daunting for some to tackle will be transformed into action because of what you shared and how well you documented your journey.

I can't wait to see the finished project! Cheers! Kurt

[roger1]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

Hey, I'm getting bored with this thread... Just one perfect step after another. Can't you screw something up every once in a while? 8'))

Originally Posted by Scarebird

As much as Greg is kidding he does have a point; seeing pitfalls in builds warns others of issues.
An example was I saw nowhere the issue of putting the hardlines on after the front suspension - the other way is far easier!

I think you just jinxed me Greg! But you might also be speaking too soon. You haven't yet seen the debugging that will inevitably need to be done after I get it to be roadworthy.

Really though I did show that one screw-up last week where I found that bulge in the quarter panel. Glad I caught that one now. Last couple of days I have found myself altering some more of the cigar shapes along the sides of body. So, I've now sanded through the urethane primer in several places.
I've used all the products I've put on this car on other cars in the same way I'm doing this one so I'm very familiar with them. What I'm finding a hard challenge is the complicated shapes on the sides of this model of GTO and getting them block sanded correctly. I'm not totally confident I can get it exactly right but I am determined to get it as close as I can.
Member 68ragtop made and sent me a video of his car with details of how the cigar shapes are supposed to look. It has been super helpful and I have watched it several times. But I just don't think I can get mine to the level of his. His car is so perfect it is just incredible.

And thank you Scarebird for the tip about doing the hardlines before installing the front suspension. Not sure I would have done it that way if it hadn't been for you.

Originally Posted by dataway

I think it was Shakespeare who said "He is all fault who hath no fault at all"

So Roger beware of a great delamination event in the future
Actually I think you will prove Shakespeare wrong, and you are creating the Hamlet of Pontiacs (without the tragic parts of course)

I'm guessing there have been a lot of engineering tragedies in the world that could have been avoided if Roger was the project manager.

I think you have more confidence in me than I have in myself!

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

Roger, I enjoyed reading this entire thread today. First, to your comment about choppy idle - fuel injection setups generally tend to smooth the idle on a "choppy" cam compared to a carburetor application of same cam. The fuel metering is more precise and the ability to adjust for variances is vast, so no surprise there. Great numbers.

As so many have responded, you have done the hobby a great service in this thread. You have given a master class in patience, planning for dependencies, being methodical and believing in your ability to just do what was necessary. Call yourself an amateur or hobbyist if you like - many professionals could learn a thing or two about how to do things correctly from your approach. The results are the fruits of your vision, your approach and your resolve. Many will be inspired from this effort and what was formerly too daunting for some to tackle will be transformed into action because of what you shared and how well you documented your journey.
I can't wait to see the finished project! Cheers! Kurt

Wow, thank you for all the kind words Kurt.
Now the pressure is on not to disappoint!

[Sloan66]

Roger, spent the early morning hours reading this thread, not much I can say that has not been said, Incredible work! Thanks for documenting it all.

One question I noted your return fuel line you made out of Nickle Copper had the spiral wrap on it, where did you source the wrap? I am currently working on a 71 C10 and wont to use the Nickle Copper lines, but can't find the wrap. Thanks!

[roger1]

Thanks!
I bought the tubing and wrap from Inline Tube.
https://www.inlinetube.com/products/sid38-5

[ZeGermanHam]

Yep, that's where I bought the spiral sleeving for my car as well. You can buy it directly from the Inline Tube website, or through Amazon.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by roger1

What I'm finding a hard challenge is the complicated shapes on the sides of this model of GTO and getting them block sanded correctly.

Oh yeah, it is a very complex collection of compound shapes! Not a flat surface anywhere on the car with the exception of some of the trunk lid...but it's also one of the most attractive designs of it's era lMO.

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

Oh yeah, it is a very complex collection of compound shapes! Not a flat surface anywhere on the car with the exception of some of the trunk lid...but it's also one of the most attractive designs of it's era lMO.

That’s a bodymans dream ! Just like working on a VW.....even the worst bodywork will look ok.....lol

[Greg Reid]

I understand what you're saying MC.. I mean, flat is flat and anybody can see when it's wavy. The problem with all of the dips and peaks on the 68/69 is that they all have to match and remain consistent to look right... I think it's quite a bit more complex than the beetle body, but that's just my opinion which is worth just about what I'm charging for it...lol

[68ragtop]

I would agree, if you are after a super flat finish, flaws in the bodywork will stand out on these cars. I spent endless agonizing hours getting the body on my car flat. I don't just mean straight, I mean a flat surface. The flatter the paint & better the body lines, the easier the smallest of flaws will stand out. I found the trickiest area to be from the font of the rear wheels to the tear drop of the back half of the doors. But there are a lot of them. So many advancements in body & paint in recent years. That has helped a ton!

[north]

The least known but very important lines in a 68-69 are the “hollows” that run from the back of the quarters to just behind the front wheels on the lower half of the body.

These hollowed areas “lighten” the feel of the car like the hollow on our cheeks make our face look the way it does.

Ironically the most obvious way to notice that body feature is to see a car that it’s been lost. Many body men fill and flatten those areas, perhaps thinking they are remnants of dents or they are lost with poor quality replacement body panels.

Those cars come off looking fat and chunky, the body looking more like it’s made of plaster or clay than stamped sheet steel.

[roger1]

I totally agree Greg and 68ragtop.
Here is a screenshot from the video 68ragtop made for me:



I recognized how complicated the shape of this area is very early on and new it was going to be a challenge to block sand. He calls these tears and I call them cigar shapes. Like 2 pinched end cigar shapes laid into each side of the car.

[north]

There is also a similar depression in the rear of the quarter and the rear of the front fender but the most challenging is the door where the extensions of the quarter and fender depressions meet and interact.

I don’t have it in my phone but there is a picture on line of a white 69 convertible with the just right time of midday light that shows all these lines perfectly.

I think I have the pic in my computer somewhere.

[north]

There is also a similar depression in the rear of the quarter and the rear of the front fender but the most challenging is the door where the extensions of the quarter and fender depressions meet and interact.

I don’t have it in my phone but there is a picture on line of a white 69 convertible with the just right time of midday light that shows all these lines perfectly.

I think I have the pic in my computer somewhere.

[68ragtop]

I tried to photograph it on the rear quarters, but its not easy to do. Took 10 pics & just can't see it in the pics.
I made a video & that kinda works because when I move the cameras you can see the light & images bend as they pass through that lower area.
Easy to see with my eyes, but hard to photograph.

basically its a few inches above the lower bottom edge & parallel to that edge of the rear quarter.

[roger1]

Your video was superb I thought. It showed the areas very clearly.
I don't know if you uploaded that to youtube but if you did and posted a link here, I think North and others would appreciate seeing it. If you would like, I could put the copy you gave me on my youtube account and post the link here.

[MUSLCAH]

Back in the 70’s we use to wrap sand paper around radiator hoses ..all sizes…to sand areas like that…

[68ragtop]

Here some pics I found via google where you can see the lines & I photo shopped white lines over them the best I could. I have a convertible, so my interpretation of the line on the rear quarter of this car is probably not accurate. The cigar ends or tear drops should match better in size than what I drew. But if you look close you can also see them in the 2nd photo without the lines by the shadows and lighting.

Maybe somebody can confirm the rear quarters. mine are similar to the front fenders where you can see them above the wheel well, but then disappear as it gets to the rear. pretty much the same way it does on the front fenders imo.

This seem about right?

[roger1]

It does seem about right. I believe you nailed the rear end of the front and the front end of the rear cigar shapes.
I think maybe the top line of the rear cigar shape goes a little further back and curves downward some before it disappears. Might be different on a convertible though.
I also think there could be a short line on the bottom in front of the front wheel opening. It would be hard to draw on that '69 because it has the fairly rare cornering light option.

[north]

What is funny about those extremely subtle feature lines is that they reappeared in far greater force on the hideous 73 Pontiac A body. Proportion is everything I guess?

[68ragtop]

They look to be somewhat removed during the restoration on this car.
Or, its just bad lighting & angles. either way, looks a bit off.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0509-79...o-convertible/