#21  
Old 02-23-2020, 11:43 AM
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I've seen the plastic throw out bearings, lol. I don't use them.

Also noticed some wheel bearings are showing up like this now, with plastic cages surrounding the needles. I don't use those either, and check them in the box while at the counter before I leave.

On the clutch deal that Jim was talking about, if you stick with the Luk stock replacement stuff you probably won't need to concern yourself with some of the points that Jim brings up. But he does mention some things you really need to pay attention to. In my case, the McLeod, using a street/strip version, diaphragm clutch, sprung hub disc, and basic organic material on a full face disc, all the things you pay attention to on what is in our case a full on street car with 1-2 track trips a year, should be perfectly fine. But the clutch is just a bit too much on the stiff side, which I'm actually surprised about.
The blame for the chatter setting in with so little miles, I lean more towards the terrain we have to drive in (hilly) and the effective gear ratio because I've run into this scenario before with other brand clutches. I just didn't expect it with a 9.64 effective ratio on a fuel injected engine with a dead smooth idle and gobs of torque in a very light 3100 lbs car. So a rear gear change is being done to help that area, and likely another clutch swap because we just really don't like the somewhat stiff pedal feel that shouldn't be there with a little 10.5" diaphragm clutch. Even I complain and I squat 500 lbs. If I'm sitting at a light more than a minute, I feel like I have to pop it in neutral. My son was stuck in a traffic jamb the other day and he came in the house complaining lol. So not all these diaphragm clutches are created equal.
I have to pay very close attention to this for my wife's daily driver which is also a stick. She absolutely needs a comfortable clutch. I can push that clutch pedal down with my hand using 3 fingers. She's happy I'm happy sort of deal

  #22  
Old 02-23-2020, 12:58 PM
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This is good reply with the proper information.
The extra money is well worth the better parts that will hold up under, last under any condition and never cause regrets of a redo due to abuse of it...

  #23  
Old 02-23-2020, 01:35 PM
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I just sold my 68 390 AMX and it had a Centerforce II. It had the weights on the pressure plate but a standard type disc without the metallic pucks. Easy pedal and smooth engagement with no chatter and while that engine was no powerhouse it handled it easily.

Had a hays street/strip diaphragm in the GTO and it was ok.

If I ever get another stick car I’d probably get another Centerforce.

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68 GTO,3860#
Stock Original 400/M-20 Muncie,3.55’s
13.86 @ 100
Old combo:
462 10.75 CR,,SD 330CFM Round Port E's,Old Faithful cam,Jim Hand Continental,3.42's.
1968 Pontiac GTO : 11.114 @ 120.130 MPH

New combo:
517 MR-1,10.8 CR,SD 350CFM E's,QFT 950/Northwind,246/252 HR,9.5” 4000 stall,3.42's
636HP/654TQ
1.452 10.603 @ 125.09
http://www.dragtimes.com/Pontiac-GTO...lip-31594.html
  #24  
Old 02-23-2020, 01:39 PM
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I vote to go with a RAM Powergrip; I used a PowerGrip HD with good results on the street/strip but it did chatter a little due to being sintered iron on both sides. I liked the HD better than the CF DF I used before.

Billet alignment tools are nice and more needed when using an aftermarket transmission due to the tighter tolerances, but for a stock Muncie the plastic one will likely not cause a problem; just depends if you want to spend the extra $50 on a billet one.

  #25  
Old 02-23-2020, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCSGTO View Post
I just sold my 68 390 AMX and it had a Centerforce II. It had the weights on the pressure plate but a standard type disc without the metallic pucks. Easy pedal and smooth engagement with no chatter and while that engine was no powerhouse it handled it easily.

Had a hays street/strip diaphragm in the GTO and it was ok.

If I ever get another stick car I’d probably get another Centerforce.
Centerforce II is what I use in my wifes car and she loves it.

  #26  
Old 02-23-2020, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by younggto View Post
I vote to go with a RAM Powergrip; I used a PowerGrip HD with good results on the street/strip but it did chatter a little due to being sintered iron on both sides. I liked the HD better than the CF DF I used before.

Billet alignment tools are nice and more needed when using an aftermarket transmission due to the tighter tolerances, but for a stock Muncie the plastic one will likely not cause a problem; just depends if you want to spend the extra $50 on a billet one.
I used the Ram HD in one of the 4th gens we had and experienced the same as you. It chattered a bit. Pedal feel wasn't bad but with a hydraulic setup I expected better. Later ended up changing to Spec in that one.

  #27  
Old 02-24-2020, 01:02 AM
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Over the years I've spent a bunch of money on different clutch kits. I'm coming to the conclusion that the more money you spend the less street friendly the setup becomes, and I'm slowly working my way back down to a well made dual sided organic disk. Not there yet, just replaced the dual friction wizbang unit that wasn't too bad except for some chatter that only seemed to appear when there was a crowd watching me back into a parking spot at a show. My last attempt before going back to organic is an 11" Kevlar/Kevlar that the retailer swore wouldn't chatter. Only a few hundred miles on it so far but simply love it compared to the organic/ceramic unit I pulled out. Sometimes it is just better to choose street manners over the ultimate horsepower handling.

Also have a totally brutal McCleod twin disk clutch that will handle 1,500 horsepower sitting on a shelf in the garage - now that was true punishment out on the street.

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  #28  
Old 02-24-2020, 09:57 AM
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If someone would buy your McCleod twin disk clutch assy and my 8 inch Triple Disc Clutch set-up, they would have some nice bookends in their Hot Rod Garage.
I look at clutch set-up on the shelf occasionally and ask myself, "What were you thinking?".

Tom V.

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  #29  
Old 02-24-2020, 11:13 AM
64Indian 64Indian is offline
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Going with a McLeod flywheel and a LUK 11” clutch on mine.

  #30  
Old 02-24-2020, 09:20 PM
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I have found that clutch manufacturers generously over estimate their torque rating I will be putting a Zoom in mine before trying something more exotic. We all gotta have the latest it’s human nature. My zoom was in my HFT 66 389 with stock internals that saw multiple clutch dumps. I put a spare muncie in my Lemans after breaking all the teeth on the 2nd gear cluster.the zoom never flinched

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  #31  
Old 05-25-2022, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lust4speed View Post
Over the years I've spent a bunch of money on different clutch kits. I'm coming to the conclusion that the more money you spend the less street friendly the setup becomes, and I'm slowly working my way back down to a well made dual sided organic disk. Not there yet, just replaced the dual friction wizbang unit that wasn't too bad except for some chatter that only seemed to appear when there was a crowd watching me back into a parking spot at a show. My last attempt before going back to organic is an 11" Kevlar/Kevlar that the retailer swore wouldn't chatter. Only a few hundred miles on it so far but simply love it compared to the organic/ceramic unit I pulled out. Sometimes it is just better to choose street manners over the ultimate horsepower handling.

Also have a totally brutal McCleod twin disk clutch that will handle 1,500 horsepower sitting on a shelf in the garage - now that was true punishment out on the street.
Any updates?
Can you tell us what clutch you have installed? I didn't see it shown. And lastly how much torque or horsepower are you making and how heavy is your car?
Thanks in advance.

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  #32  
Old 05-25-2022, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCSGTO View Post
I just sold my 68 390 AMX and it had a Centerforce II. It had the weights on the pressure plate but a standard type disc without the metallic pucks. Easy pedal and smooth engagement with no chatter and while that engine was no powerhouse it handled it easily.

Had a hays street/strip diaphragm in the GTO and it was ok.

If I ever get another stick car I’d probably get another Centerforce.
Any pictures of the AMX?

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  #33  
Old 05-25-2022, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Any updates?
Can you tell us what clutch you have installed? I didn't see it shown. And lastly how much torque or horsepower are you making and how heavy is your car?
Thanks in advance.
I've got a couple thousand miles on the clutch now. Clutch Masters diaphragm 11" Kevlar. Still just a hint of chatter when I back into the uphill parking spot at our local car show and I still like it the best of the units I have run. If it wasn't for the 32 bolts around the old Lakewood scattershield I would have the pieces out and media blasted as Tom Vaught suggested. Really not a problem and not worth the effort. Seems like maybe just a little buildup of resin that the blasting might remove. Still the smoothest engagement I've experienced.

Despite doing stupid things fairly often with my car, I've been fortunate in usually keeping my equipment together. I mention this before going into the power aspect because I've got friends that break stuff all the time with a lot less horsepower and torque. I'm anything but conservative with launching and shifting at the strip but so far the mild clutch has held up fine and doesn't make me hate it the other 99% of the time I'm out cruising around.

My '67 GTO weighs in at 3,980 with me in it at the strip and add the weight of another person and some gear when screwing around out on the street. Dana 60 3.55 rear with helical gear limited slip, TKO-600 trans, and Nitto 555R 275/60R15 drag radials.

We had 18 cars for our club dyno day and excluding three dedicated drag cars, my car was highest in horsepower that day beating out 4 aluminum head engines. Iron headed, stock looking, air conditioning with what looks like the stock air cleaner for the first couple of pulls, and ran the dyno session through the mufflers. Drive it to Yuma, AZ once a year on a 550 mile round trip and all over SoCal for shows.

Attached is the dyno sheet showing rear wheel horsepower and photo of the engine compartment.
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  #34  
Old 05-25-2022, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lust4speed View Post
I've got a couple thousand miles on the clutch now. Clutch Masters diaphragm 11" Kevlar. Still just a hint of chatter when I back into the uphill parking spot at our local car show and I still like it the best of the units I have run. If it wasn't for the 32 bolts around the old Lakewood scattershield I would have the pieces out and media blasted as Tom Vaught suggested. Really not a problem and not worth the effort. Seems like maybe just a little buildup of resin that the blasting might remove. Still the smoothest engagement I've experienced.
A couple of thousand miles. I agree, I would not mess with it until I had 5k on the system parts. You want to give that excess resin a good time period to get nice and hot and boil off before doing the media blasting. Do not use aggressive media. Do not want to remove material, just remove the resin on the surface.

Happy Motoring.

Tom V.

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