[hurryinhoosier62]

So close.........

[tom s]

Stan(transporter)Talked to my machinist,he thinks the easiest thing to do is a a tapered spacer something like is on my heads but tapered to push the headers out away from the block.The other thing you have to look at is the oil filter location.Im sure long branch would have no way of working on the pass side,not sure about RAs.As I said for the 77-81 cars that used this engine the factory would be the easy way.Custom headers would be a option if looking for all the HP.

[uforacing]

As I remember the hooker headers that were for a 301/2nd gen were 1-5/8". Driver side fit in my 80 Grand am was fine but I had to move two tubes on the passenger side to make them work.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ho...w/make/pontiac

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by tom s

Stan(transporter)Talked to my machinist,he thinks the easiest thing to do is a a tapered spacer something like is on my heads but tapered to push the headers out away from the block.The other thing you have to look at is the oil filter location.Im sure long branch would have no way of working on the pass side,not sure about RAs.As I said for the 77-81 cars that used this engine the factory would be the easy way.Custom headers would be a option if looking for all the HP.

That wedge spacer makes sense, good idea, I also wandered out to my 63 Tempest Gasser build this afternoon. I have about four sets of different headers and a set of long branches.

Judging from the pics you posted, I do believe that the "shorty" headers I have may be a bolt on. It looks like they have ample room to the block and would clear the horizontal filter pad on the 301, I never really felt they flowed (scavenged) that well, but they may be an easy way out that might be better than the 301 logs.

Just food for thought, waiting(as you are) for the results, good luck Tom.http://static.summitracing.com/globa...ed-28164_w.jpg




Stan

[Streetsamurai]

Hi Tom,
I really appreciate you posting this build. I would like a light motor for my 67 Firebird and I think this might be a great fit for it. If you get a chance would you mind weighing the motor after you have finished testing it? Really excited to hear how it runs, Thank you!

[tom s]

maybe someone on the 301 board knows what the 301 block weighs.The only other parts that would show much diff is the rod weight.Piston wont be a huge diff and the 326 crank wont be much less than a 350-400 crank.Valley pan just a touch less.Tom

[tom s]

From a little search a stock 301 is about 140 lb less than a stock 389-400.The 326 crank will weight more than a 301 crank forsure.How much I dont know.The forged pistons might be lighter than the stock 301,the rods should be close.This engine will be for sale after the article is done.Tom

[Streetsamurai]

Wow that is a big weight difference. I saw earlier there was a bit of a piston to crank clearence issue with the 326 crank, would that be even more of an issue with a 400 crank?

[tom s]

We think a little more.I used the 63 326 crank because when I started the project I tought it would make a great engine for a 63 Tempest street diver.Since then I have bought my 69 firebird back and had a complete RA III stroker engine in the garage waiting for it.Tom

[J.C.you]

Originally Posted by tom s

From a little search a stock 301 is about 140 lb less than a stock 389-400.The 326 crank will weight more than a 301 crank forsure.How much I dont know.The forged pistons might be lighter than the stock 301,the rods should be close.This engine will be for sale after the article is done.Tom

I have a guy with a limited modified wanting to try a poncho motor.....perfect app. If you get tired of it and want to donate....

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Streetsamurai

Wow that is a big weight difference. I saw earlier there was a bit of a piston to crank clearence issue with the 326 crank, would that be even more of an issue with a 400 crank?

326, 350, 389, 400, essentially all use the same crank. They are just balanced different. There are small differences in flywheel locating hub diameter and materials used for manufacture, but other than that, they are physically interchangeable as far as fitting in place of each other. They all have the same stroke, they just need to be balanced for whatever engine they go in.

[tom s]

Paul,the 63 326 crank had slightly smaller counter weight when set in the block.We had to clearance it less.Tom

[gtofreek]

I never knew that. 63 only?

[Ragtop Man]

Did Pontiac ever produce a short-deck 303 4V intake, and would that work with your combo? I assume those are as rare as honest politicians. Or are there diffs in the deck heights of the 301/303? Read somewhere that the outer shell of the block cores came from the 303 program...

Fascinated by this build, always regretted that Pontiac caved into Chevy for the V8s in the thirdgen Firebird. A proper 301 Turbo in that car would have stopped the mullet head jokes before they started!

[tom s]

Pontiac made a short deck 2-4 crossram intake for RA IV heads.There is a pic in Petes book..I have owned one.They required a very rare tall dist to clear the intake.I have owned 2 of them.Paul,not sure,I have only ever played with a 63 326 crank.Tom

['ol Pinion head]

Tom, how did you & Joe address the cooling passage on the traditional V8 Pontiac cyl heads & its mating to the 301 block. Have been long interested in a similar build. Thank you for being a trail blazer in this effort!

(Went back & reread the whole thread, will be tearing down an extra 301T to examine the block mating coolant passages).

[Skip Fix]

Tom I have some cheap Hooker D port second gen headers I'll donate if you need to cut and section some. New never even used.

[tom s]

OPH,we did not really see a issue except for the oil drain back holes on a std pontiac head gasket.The passages in the block match with the cooling on the head when used with the std gasket.The std gasket cover the large holes in the block.We will learn more when we get it lit off.As I have said a couple times the right way is to send a 301 and a butler gasket to Cometic and have them make the butler with the smaller 301 drain back hole.The 301 gasket did not work with the #15 head combustion chamber.Tom

[tom s]

Skip,we have these Tyrees working now.Thanks,Tom

[tom s]

Joe got the engine on the dyno,did the oil prime.Had good oil pressure and no leaks!He has family in this weekend so maybe first of the week.With Christmas in the middle it might screw this week up.After more than a year whats a week or two,Just hope we dont make a big mess on Joes floor.Tom