[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by eric65

TechBG has posted a few ill-advised comments about me that I really feel I need to clear up. Frankly am getting tired of his mis-statements and want to clear for the members here. This is a long post, sorry I will try and highlight the mistaken parts made by Adam Campbell.


TechBg last post
Response is my actual letter to Barry Grant himself. I really want you to find my demand to Barry for a new manifold

Eric Emmerich
1721 Fort Henry Dr
Fort Wright, KY 41011
859-331-4433 home
513-659-1014 cell

December 27, 2007
Mr. Barry Grant
President/Owner
Barry Grant Incorporated
1450 McDonald Road
Dahlonega, GA 30533

Dear Mr. Grant:

I am in the process of restoring a 1965 Pontiac GTO, and on my engine build I decided to buy a Barry Grant Six Shooter package. This decision made after seeing the article in Car Craft Magazine June 06 about your product line. In May of 2007 I purchased the unit via Rich Desbiens distributor. Initially after receiving the product I was impressed with its look and was very happy. However problems arose when I tried to fit the unit together as the front carburetor did not fit on the manifold. I then contacted Barry Grant (BG) Support, and it took some persistence on my part, but was able to have the manifold sent back to you and after I assume work done I received it back and the carb now fits on the unit. Thanks to Doug Schriefer for this. This all occurred in May thru July of 2007.

Later in the year in September I finally got around to installing the manifold on my rebuilt engine which I had just installed in the GTO resto project. Well much to my dismay I could not get 4 intake bolts in as they hit the intake runners. Again as before I called BG Support and contacted a tech service person named Steve. He said I could grind of some of the excess material myself to accommodate the bolts or send it back again to BG support and they would do the same. He stated this was the way they had been repairing this issue or would. So I thought instead of sending it back again I would try it myself. I did remove the excess material and the bolts now will go in properly. However, and I didn’t think of this at the time, the finish on the manifold is now flawed, or ruined. The brushed or satin type finished look of the cast aluminum intake is now bad in these areas. So now I have an intake that fits but looks like ‘Hell’ in appearance. After this I again called BG Support and complained that the finish was now bad and what could be done. I believe I talked again to Doug Schriefer and Steve about this on different occasions. Eventually I was told to send the manifold back to BG Support and they would see what they could do. I sent it back in early October 2007 and you received it on October 11th 2007. I never heard from anyone there and eventually used a private message on PY Online Forums to a Tech@BG on October 29th 2007 to find what happen. I received a PM back from Tech@BG that the manifold was given over to an Adam Campbell for review. I then contacted Adam and was told by him in November 2007 that a Vice President (name not disclosed to me) had decided that BG will not replace the manifold but would try and work out the finish. Well I didn’t like this decision and told Adam of this but according to him no other rectification would take place for me. I was not at all happy about this as I knew the manifold would not look as it should have and would always look poor. I was at his mercy however so I agreed to have your company do what Adam referred to as “tumble” the manifold in an attempt to rectify the finish. As I say I wasn’t happy as I knew the first run BG Six Shooter manifold had fit problems and had heard thru forum boards that the later castings had the problem resolved. I would have like to have had one of these in trade, but this would not happen for me. Adam told me that this trade would not take place for me and I was getting this one back either not touched by BG Support or tumbled. I agreed to try and tumble unhappily. But felt I had no other option and according to Adam I have none. Adam was not very helpful and could be condescending to me at times.

Well I did not hear from anyone for 2 weeks after these phone conversations and finally called Adam Campbell back in early December 2007. He stated they would send it back to me tumbled. This wasn’t very prompt service as I had to keep calling to remind them to do something or send it back. I did receive back the manifold on December 14th 2007 and as I knew the finish was still poor quality and shiny in some spots and dull in others. The original cast appearance is long gone.

Barry, I am very unhappy with my Six Shooter, after paying over $2500 I would expect something more than this. This manifold I’ve had problems with from the first time I received it and I haven’t even tried to start this car yet. I am assuming that when I do get around to starting and running this car that it performs well. I can assure you it looks poor quality on the manifold end of the product. I still cannot believe you would send out a product that could not have been test fitted like these obviously were not. I cannot believe that, first the carb would not fit on the manifold, and then the manifold bolts would not go in. That the manifold has to be modified by the customer to make fit is deplorable. I admit I should have sent back the manifold a second time, although you should be able to see my frustration about that, instead of removing the excess material myself. I feel your customer service really let me down about advising for me to remove excess material and then about replacing the manifold with one that fits. I believe from the phone conversations I had with BG Support that they would have done the same grinding on the manifold I did in part to make right, resulting in the same finish problems. I really feel ripped off by your company and your Tech Support team which was of no help to me, with their unwillingness to replace this manifold.

Barry, I am one unhappy customer of Barry Grant Products and will absolutely never buy another BG Product. I have posted about this problem on the PY Online Forum community. I have advised others not to buy BG Products particularly the Six Shooter product line. I have a GTO friend named Cap Profit who lives in Kansas City KS who was contemplating buying one of these for his GTO restoration. I have advised him not to, and that your customer support is not very helpful. I will advise others who ask the same. I will use this unit and put it on my car still and do the best I can with the finish, I may paint it or try and sand blast it myself to get some kind of uniform look to it. I will also tell all at the cruise-ins, car shows, and etc I go to that Barry Grant Products are not very good and not to buy them, or at your own risk. I am also going to send a copy of this and an explanation to the Georgia Better Business Bureau in Atlanta GA to lodge a complaint against your company.

Barry, I am sorry about these before mentioned steps I will take, and have, but as the customer who has already paid over $2500 for a product with problems that will not be resolved by your company, I have no other option but to complain. No one likes to loose money and I know it would cost you to send me a proper fitting manifold with proper appearance, but I don’t like to loose as well. In the restoration of these old cars the person doing it has to go out on a limb sometimes with certain new products that promise new or increased performance. So you put out what is big bucks for a guy like me on products hoping you get quality. In my case with your company I don’t feel at all like I got a quality product.


Sincerely



Eric E Emmerich


Ok from reading the actual letter sent to Barry where do you find the DEMAND for a new manifold. Face it Techbg you are trying your best to point to me as the villian in this. I will post it and let the members decide.


Next point your return post to Ron.


By Techbg

I did send Ron a Pm or a couple of them asking about his problem and that if he would consider selling me his old one if he didnt need to send it back.
Ok this dosent sound like I was demanding him to give me his old one. Also I never heard back from Ron to those PM's so I never knew his outcome.

TechBg this post is mainly to you and your way of dealing with customers. You lie twist and make the customer to be the bad guy if they dont agree with you.
Knock it off towards me
Eric

Eric,
No lying and twisting here , you started the thread and we are merely defending ourselves in it. There were numerous calls between you and I regarding this where you insisted the manifold be changed out.You twisted what you put in the letter to Barry and what you posted and we even called you out for it in the thread. You were offered one at cost and declined . You knew Ron was sending the old one back so don't even try and go there.I am not going to continue arguing with you Eric regarding this . We will continue to defend ourselves though as needed as long as this thread keeps going. We will also continue to help those we can.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by eric65

to members an update on mine

A while back I filed a claim with the Better Business Bureau of Georgia against BG. When you enter a claim you must file what you would do/take to settle the claim. What I offered was to buy a new manifold for $175. This was half the price that TechBG offered me for a replacement ($350 or so). I thought this to be equitable and acceptable for my case. Half my falut half theirs...???? I was turned down by BG and the claim was settled as ruled by the BBB.


As far as the nice post from members here urging BG to replace my manifold. I appreciate your words and assistance. Thank You, however your post will fall on deaf ears as I believe TechBg 'Has it in for me and my case' I have PM'd some as to why. But thank you none the less.


I would think if you have a greif with Barry Grant send Barry a personal letter about the problems you experienced and state what you think to him. I would think that would be very effective in letting Barry know if you have had problems with his products and or support and letters to company Presidents tend to have a effect if they get enough of them. Note the letter to him I posted in the above thread...

To all thinking of buying BG products. I would think the issues with the 6 shooter should be resolved. I assume the intake manifolds now fit, I dont know about 'binding linkage and all'... About their service I would think twice about them. Warning to you>>> If you have a complaint dont take it to Adam Campbell, if you have a differeing opinion from his you will loose with their company.

Good Luck and Take care
Eric

Eric, now you are really reaching.... The claim to the BBB was not settled,it was closed .To quote the BBB document "Your company has made a good faith effort in an attempt to resolve this issue; therefore we are closing the case at this time" . At some point YOU have to take responsibility for your actions and as mentioned we offered [this was from Barry himself] to sell you an intake at dead cost and not even charge for machining. This was made well after the item went out of warranty . You ask me to knock it off towards you but then want to attack me personally,very mature. I warranty stuff all the time even if my opinion differs from that of the customer and many times warranty items well past the time frame even when we are not required to do so. Each case is looked at individually . In the case of your intake it was reviewed by myself, the company vp and Barry himself and all 3 of us had the same opinion independantly . Our offer still stands in regards to the intake.

[Tech @ BG]

Ron,
We are currently looking at all of our instructions and updating/rewriting them if needed. I have advised my guys to add a section/drawing showing the 3 arms from the side and notations showing exactly where they go so hopefully this will help eliminate this issue in the future.

[RAJ7395]

Excellent! I'm sure that will help avoid the confusion that I had with where they go.

I'd also have them take a look at the tolerance stack up on that front slider mechanism as I swear it did bind up. For what it's worth, all the parts were in the garage and cold soaked down to freezing temps immediately before I brought inside and assembled it so that might be a contributor.

[Mr6x]

A friend of mine bought a Demon and had the problem with the shavings. He just couldn't get it to run right. He finally pulled it apart and found shavings behind the idle screws. He cleaned out the trash and it ran fine.

Probably a lack of effective quality control on BG's part IMO. As far as I'm concerned, this is just plain unacceptable. I hope they realize that it's their customers that keeps them in business.

Bad press like these posts always hurt. BG, take your licks and learn from it. Using examples like the Holley recall does nothing to validate BG's poor quality control or customer service.

[fastgto]

Jesus, it seems to me that the BG Tech is on here alot trying to work things out.
He seems to be on here more than any other company rep from any other company.
He is at least trying it appears. I give him and the BG Company huge kudo`s for at least trying to work things out. BG Tech in my opinion you are doing a good job at trying to keep people happy. NO I am NOT trying to offend anybody at all, by making this statement.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by Mr6x

A friend of mine bought a Demon and had the problem with the shavings. He just couldn't get it to run right. He finally pulled it apart and found shavings behind the idle screws. He cleaned out the trash and it ran fine.

Probably a lack of effective quality control on BG's part IMO. As far as I'm concerned, this is just plain unacceptable. I hope they realize that it's their customers that keeps them in business.

Bad press like these posts always hurt. BG, take your licks and learn from it. Using examples like the Holley recall does nothing to validate BG's poor quality control or customer service.

We did not post the recall to validate our quality contol as it was posted to show they took the route of using junk zinc in their castings for a period of time when we did not .We continued to use U.S. made zinc at a much higher cost and did not have a price increase. As ALREADY covered in this thread and on many other boards we DID take our licks on the shavings,openly admitted it and took measures to correct it... old news....here to help as always.

[440GP69]

i may be a lill off topic but what type of horse power will these support???

[Mr6x]

Tech @ BG,

Why didn't your company send him a replacement manifold? If you know that there are defective manifolds out there, why not just replace it?

A happy customer might net you a few word of mouth sales, but an unhappy customer, such as Mr. Emmerich, might be costing you many, many more.

In my opinion, your company should have nipped this in the bud. Instead, you continue with these exchanges with your customer trying to defend your company's position in a forum of his peers. Do you think your gaining sales this way? How many people are going to think twice before they purchase your product now?

Maybe these production problems are worked out now, but what about all the other people that got "stuck" with your first run, a product known to have multiple issues. They are the ones that stuck their neck and wallets out for you and your company because they believed in the product you were pitching.

Heck, I even like this product but I still remember the shavings in my friends Demon. And now this? No sir, this product is not for me.

I've been a Process and Quality Technician for 7 years now and I see this all the time. Take my advise, nip this in the bud and exchange the manifold. It makes good business sense in the long run. Remember, potential customers are reading this thread too.

[lazlo]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I gotta tell ya..................

I read the negative thread on Inline Tube, and the responses posted by a representative from that company. Based on reading the entire thread I'll be buying a power disc brake assembly for my 68 GTO from them..

After reading this thread and the responses by BG TEch, I'll pass on buying anything with their label on it. I spend $2600 bucks on a piece I expect it to be right, or to be made right very quickly. I don't expect to be told to fix it myself or send it back two or three times to get it right while my project sits in the garage waiting for repairs on a high dollar item.

The correct respnse on a $2600 intake problem is "Send it back, we'll ship you a new one right away, and pay for shipping" not "Send it back two or three times and we'll try to fix a problem we were aware of when you called us with the first compaint.

I think the biggest reason for BG tech to be on here publicly addressing problems is to do damage control and I'm not impressed.

[YVEYANT]

Bingo on both of the previous responses.
Nothing this representative says will legitimize what has transpired here. When BG himself decides to swallow his pride and do what is right, which is to give this man a new intake with a smile, then and only then will I keep an open mind towards any future purchases of a BG product. I would also be sure to let people know how they made good on and stood by their product 100%. Otherwise, I will continue to let everyone who is ever interested in a BG product know about this thread where they can judge for themselves. This thread will hurt BG over time if not rectified.
Think a simple thread and a bunch of people cannot make sales dwindle over time.. We are the bread and butter as this is the outlet/hobby we live and breath for. This is not some knitting site.
This will not be one of those company blunders or threads which will die down over time. It will continue to come around until Eric is given a new manifold. He is a customer who expected the best from BG and was clearly given an inferior product. I don't care if he cut it in half. If he was given a superior, flawless product as he should of received, their would of never been a reason for him to alter it. Do the right thing, stand by your product and give this gentleman what he paid for, a new manifold.
Respectively, ask BG himself to reconsider this and do the right thing by this gentleman. It can only help in the long run.

[Tech @ BG]

Guys, we are here to help but our decision is final for the reasons already posted . Unless someone else has a legitimate problem in this thread we will not be posting anymore in it .

[67 Lamnas]

My buddy Mike Wasson bought three six shooters for resale in '07. We assembled one the nite before a swap meet where he wanted to have one on display for show and tell.

During assembly, I noted the lack of spot-facing on the driver's side manifold mounting bolt, and we couldn't get the front carb to go down over the studs, because the location of one of the studs was off.

I can't imagine spending ~$2500 for a six-shooter, and then being told that BG was aware of the problem, and not getting an updated manifold shipped to me at no charge.

If I ran my business that way, I would eventually have no customers, and for the same reasons as others have stated on here, I will not be buying any BG products, nor will I recommend them to others. In fact, I'll go one step further and recommend that folks NOT buy BG products.

[Firedup6975]

These business practices are repulsive IMHO! We the "little" Guy or Girl seek out businesses such as these to help and provide us with guidance and products we can trust!!! Kind of like going to the DR. and trusting them to go above and beyond the call of duty. It's no different in the Retail market, and when a problem arises, we expect that problem be dealt with in a professional manner, which means making good on something that is wrong. Will it take until a specific part flies apart and cause a serious injury to someone in their Car or worse a Fatality???? Food for thought here, a business could be totally wiped out if that happens!!! Think about that not to mention the Company CEO and reps will live with that the rest of your lives!!Especially in times such as these and economics not looking good on the horizon with rising costs of EVERYTHING, It would be an especially good time to re think decisions that may un doubted hurt ones business as a result of being UN reasonable over a situation such as this. Positive word of mouth comments and experiences account for more business in a business such as this than you might think. Why can't you just simple come to the realization that you need to make this right for all parties involved? Keeping Customers happy, will make for a better, bigger stronger, business in the end, over the later!

Do what's RIGHT! Because you know it's RIGHT!!

[RAJ7395]

Adams posts above indicate that Barry Grant himself made (was at least was aware of) the descision not to replace Erics intake. In my opinion, for the owner and guy whose name is plastered all over the unit to deny making it right is just flat out stupid and wrong.

We bought a Six Shooter not a "Sick Sh!tter".

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by 440GP69

i may be a lill off topic but what type of horse power will these support???

We have seen guys use them anywhere up into the high 500hp ranges. They will function above that but keep in mind at some point a higher performance intake manifold and a properly matched single carburetor will start making better power just due to the overall size of everything.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by Tech @ BG

Guys, we are here to help but our decision is final for the reasons already posted . Unless someone else has a legitimate problem in this thread we will not be posting anymore in it .

Originally Posted by Tech @ BG

We will continue to defend ourselves though as needed as long as this thread keeps going. We will also continue to help those we can.

Looks like another side step to me. Based on what I’ve read through out this thread, there’s no way I could even think of doing business on any level with this company.

The case here is simple especially when dealing with high dollar engine parts. A little good PR (not the negative stuff that’s in this thread) goes a hell of a long way.

Congrats BG. Looks like you’ve lost quite a few customers simply because you wouldn’t do right by one.

[pinballDan]

It is just amazing about companies that don't stand behind there products when they know they have a problem , from engine blocks to intake manifolds they should replace or refund . If you ordered a part from a LARGER company such as summit or jegs they would eat the part and refund or replace it no questions asked , so you would tell 10 friends how they took care of you but these smaller companies want to fleece you on there mistakes , then cry about it when they should of eaten the intake or block to save there name . But today the world is no about honer it is about get the quick buck and bankrupt and start under another name. What makes me sick is that most of use are hard working people that don't make $2600 in a week and It takes time to save that much and then to have a company sell you a part that they know is not 100% correct and they say well you did it to it . Well you told me to . Thank god there are some people at some companies that still care . Won't say names but there are some .

Dan

[Tech @ BG]

I know I said I wasn't going to comment but a couple of the statements thrown around merit it in keeping things factual. There are no issues at this point with the fitment of Eric's intake . Bottom line is that Eric ground all over the entire surface of the intake and has an issue with the looks of it. We do not knowingly send out send out parts that are not 100% correct as insinuated so please don't post false statements.The original castings were done by a very reputable company who also made castings for the big 3 automakers and the fittment around the bolt holes was not discovered until approx 65-85 of them were shipped.The other intakes that were brought back in here have been spot faced and sent back out because they were new and once again the spot-facing was the only issue with them. You guys can continue to bash and come to your own conclusions but there were 2 people that were taken care of in this thread as well as a couple of others with non-related issues and several more that needed carburetor recommendations. GM , Ford and Chrysler do not give out replacement cars because they have an update or a campaign on them nor are we required to do so. We offered to spot face Eric's manifold and machine the areas that could be but upon inspection saw the remainder of the intake was ground upon which is not a warrantable concern. If you bought a carburetor from us and the float stuck so you decided to take a hammer and beat on the float bowl to unstick it and broke the bowl and the main body would you expect to have them replaced under warranty? You cannot honestly sit there and say yes and this situation is no different. We made a legitimate effort to resolve this as was evidenced by the BBB findings yet it was not enough to satisfy the customer in this case. At this point we can continue to agree to disagree.

[GT182]

I've got to agree along with Lazlo, YVEYANT, 67 Lamnas and others. If I ran a buisness knowing I had sold defective first-run products and a coustomer complained, was told to try something that didn't work, got a poor workaround from the company, and then was told tuff doo doo no more support, refund or replacement... I'd be gettiing a lawyer and sue. I'm sure Eric has this all documented and it should be his legal right to go after BG.

I was looking at some of the Barry Grant products for my 66 GTO, but in no way will I buy from a company that does this to it's customers. IMHO you have stolen 2500 dollars from Eric with a known defective product. Shame shame shame... poor Quality Control and Mangement is no excuse. Remember, without satisfied customers you eventually go out of buisness, from the word of it spreading around.