[Thumpin455_GTO]

Lynn, I would be interested in a set of symetrical port heads but affording a set would be some time. Dedicated intake, custom headers, custom cam, all equal more expense.

If the huge ports of the V only flowed around 360@.800 couldnt someone use the space afforded in the head to make a port that really flows some air? Instead of using 60's tech of make it bigger (like the 351C 4v Ford with too large ports) why not use some 2000 ideas and make a port that is more eficient and makes power while preserving velocity? Hasnt it been drilled into everyones head that its the shape more so than the size?

Symetrical ports should be better because you design one port instead of 2 or three. CNC programs could ensure all cylinders flow the same therefore maimizing power and consistency. Itdoesnt have to be HUGE, consider all the space that would be available if you filled those heads and milled the ports to a better shape. Offset rockers could substantialy help with the pushrod going through the port by moving it out of the port, or minimizing its disturbance to flow.

Go with a clean sheet of paper using where the bolts are, and where the pushrods lie and build a head around it using todays tech. That billet HEMI head posted got me thinking, why not just take what you cant move (ie pushrods, head bolts, and the amount of space the bore provides for valves) and go from there? come up with the best ports, put the water jacket around them and fit them to the blocks archtecture. V ports are far too large to keep velocity up unless its a forced induction engine. Take few chunks of billet aluminum, a flow bench, and a bridgeport, and find out what does the best. If the Chevy port in the prostock heads flow what we need for a 500ci engine to make the power, adapt those ports into a symetrical port head for our engines.

RA V is beyond cool, nostalgic and with a mystic quality all thier own, but whats keping us from improving on it and layin the smack down on the silly coporate and Ferd guys?

[Thumpin455_GTO]

I gotta agree with luggnut in one respect. I absolutely love the look on peoples faces when I open the hood and they see and engine they cant identify, and it just beat them. Used to be alot of fun beating "race" cars with my 11 sec. street car thru the mufflers with only $5k in the entire car.

If I could get a set of killer heads relatively cheap ($2500-$3500 ready to run) that I could slap on with a good intake and carb, I would be in line. Hell I would sell my just built 330cfm Ehead 270-275 solid roller 467 so I could build it with my tax return this year.

Nothing better than beating Chevy's especially when I run faster cheaper and NA to thier power adder.(xcept maybe beating mopar's)

[tom s]

Todd,Mendoza who does a lot of super stock heads really does not think the V port is that bad.With the foil to keep down turbulence and a flat floor like he did to mine,he thinks the velecoity is good.He still says the valve size is the restriction.I think there is room to offset the valve but then a convent. pontiac bore size is the rub from shrouding.He said that next to the hemi which gives a straight shot at the valve it is a good design.SOoo again bore size is the killer,resulting in a aftermarket block along with EVERYTHING else.Just when, as a lot of people bring up, does it become a pure custom racing engine and NOT a pontiac.Tom

[lugnutt]

Sounds like a plan. Look at the ls1 and ls2 and design after that! Maybe two intake ports per cylinder one on each side of the push rod. New ideas sound better than copying old technology. I think it would be a better investment in the long run. Its been stated and suggested alot of the heads arent going to be used for resto projects. With the money these will end up costing I can only see the guys that make gobs of power (spending that much money)using them. If not why not just use E heads? Wouldn't the final cost be about the same?

[Lloyd-TX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lloyd-TX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
"Factory" race teams used airfoils in place of a round tube. They helped a bit over just having a round tube. Restriction? Maybe, but there's still more port there than any other Pontiac head designed in that era (which was the reason why it was such a colossal flop with the 303, and not much better on a 400...428's were better equipped to use the port, but even still were "smallish"). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmmmm . . .

Prolly work pretty well on a pump gas 535" street deal then, correct? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, until you choked it with a 750 (or 800 cfm at best) Q-JEt.

I love Q-Jets for street rides, but I don't think even the best one could keep up with the demands of that engine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Brian, I believe I'll have to go along with you on that one, but only if I can talk Tom V. into building me a GOOD Holley.

[sdbob]

As I saw in the 70's the RAV in a stock car with 455+ ci would WALK away from a BBC 454that was prepared by some of the best Chebie guys.I for one probably couldn't afford them as a total package(unless I come into some $). It would be interesting project. Would changing the angle of the port help air flow? In other words if the port Could go straight into the cylinder vertically would this be maximum air flow to the cylinder? not taking into account a valve. So as the port is laid over the flow decreases plus adding a valve. So would 'high' porting help the flow? Just curious.Also WHEN I want something I save, find the best service(when I need help I need answers),and buy it. AND try not too 2nd guess anything. I want it...

[tom s]

Bob,Mendoza does not think anything you will do can increase the flo much with a 2.19 valve!He said a hemi,BBC or any head will be maxed at around 380 with that valve size.FYI,Tom

[Steve Barcak]

Lloyd,
If you love Q-jets so much, why not just use 2 of them on your big motor? It has been done before and it works. Have you thought of that? Build yourself an intake or modify an existing one.
on another note related to the posts here-
The bore size/flow limitations problems with the V stuff is not a prooblem with a HEMI head as the valve is at the top of the cylinder and not on the side of it.
Someone earlier made a very common sense comment as to a high flow head solution for Pontiacs and it went over everybodys head.
Yup, it can be done and for less money and effort.
Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

[Wareagle]

Nice Mark--Steve B. I heard that Arnie Beswick has plans of putting together another 71 Boss Bird FC Ram Air V head combo --that would be cool .

[Larry Navarro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lugnutt:
I think alot of people want the head. But, will they buy it after it is made?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I understand where your coming from on that observation.

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wareagle:
Nice Mark--Steve B. I heard that Arnie Beswick has plans of putting together another 71 Boss Bird FC Ram Air V head combo --that would be cool . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup. The guys with the Grocery Getter clone wagon are spearheading the project, with assistance from Rob Bruce. No word on exactly what Pontiac configuration will be powering it, but it will be traditional Pontiac powered...blown and on nitro'.

As of November 2004 however, not even a single pipe had been bent yet for the chassis, so there's no telling when it will debut (likely not in 2005).

[tom s]

Mark,now the hard part,putting on the water X over so the doughnut lines up right.Remember my 2-4 tunnel ram!LOL,Tom

[GREATGTO]

i was thinking about the ram V heads a little more and remembered they had a cracking problem, correct me if im wrong, every set iv ever seen had cracks in them, will these new heads address this problem?

[tom s]

I have owned 5 diff sets and none had cracks.I know some did have problems but not sure where they cracked.Maybe someone like Lynn can answer.Tom

[TUNNEL PORT]

My #44's had a surface crack at the head bolt boss when I got them. It was just at the suface & was not in the water jack & would not have had any affect for use. I had them fixed at a place that restores rare cyl. heads just to be sure they did not spread. I don't know if it was comon to do that when over torqued? Both sides had one.

Ron

[TUNNEL PORT]

Oh & count me in on a set. As long as they look like the originals. I dont care what other mods you cant see.

Ron

[GREATGTO]

well im sure it would be addressed, i think they were prone to cracking because the size of the ports, if you look at them you can see how they might be weak , i bet torquing the head bolts is very crucial, more than it would be on any other head.im wondering what kinda surface psi distribution we gets with 4 head bolts per cylinder. its something to consider when designing these heads obviously

[GREATGTO]

maybe the heads could be made with port intruders, that way a very short head bolt could be used, taking the bulk head of the bolt off the top surface of the head, would probably only need a 2 1/2 to 3'' head bolt for the head bolts near the ports.

[TUNNEL PORT]

One had a crack on the bolt boss where the cast #44 was. The other had it on the bolt boss on the exhaust port to the left of the cast #. So they were both on the outside sufaces of the heads.
Also I had a few sets of the air foils or wings made back when I needed a set for myself. So if anyone needs a set Ive got extras.

Ron

[Wareagle]

Thanks Brian for the info--ya those guys have got that wagon hauling with PONTIAC POWER running 7's-- .