[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by The Boss

I think it's right to keep this in the lobby and to have a discussion that all will see.

Guns don't cause these tragedies and regardless of what some may believe, guns don't solve or end them either. The shooter used guns registered to his MOTHER. Shot her students with her own guns - so clearly having teachers who own guns does not protect the students.

For all of the descriptions you hear of our town tonight and in the coming weeks - you cannot get the sense of what an idyllic place this HAS been to raise a family. I finally got to speak with two friends of mine, one - the chief of the Sandy Hook Fire Company and the other the chief of Newtown Hook & Ladder - both there today. Life here changed today & will unfortunately never be the same.

Speaking with Gary (Muscle Collector) today I asked is the Devil really this strong? That something like this could happen?

The loss, the enormity of the loss is incomprehensible, to watch your pastor lose his composure on national television is nothing that ever comes into your imagination. Hug your families for us tonight and pray you never know any of what some of our friends are dealing with this evening.

Chris,thanks for the reminder.Our thoughts and prayers go out to all of you.Our grand daughter spent the night and shes a little sore from being hugged so much.

[2manyponchos]

Chris and Jeremy. Glad you guys are OK! I talked to Rob yesterday afternoon and he assured me your families were physically unharmed. While we are several states away, let us know if your Pontiac brothers in Indiana can be of any help. In the meantime, you all are in our thoughts and prayers. Words can't describe and never will. -Doug

[twooldgoats]

Originally Posted by PonchoV8

Single mother? Notorious for raising the worst monsters on the planet.
....

?????

Jim

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by PonchoV8

I have wondered if she had the weapons in her name because of him being unstable, but she didn't want to deprive him of his joy for them. In other words she enabled him by giving him access (strawman purchase) when he was "mentally defective", as the yellow sheet asks in one of the questions when purchasing a firearm.

It doesnt always take a real weapon to create harm.
One of my wifes students who came from a broken home and was homeless most of his 6 yrs in elementary school was killed at his junior high school.My wife chose to mentor this boy from kindergarten up until the time he left for junior high. She bought him shoes,clothes when he needed them,took him out for a treat after school,took him to the beach fishing,all in a effort to help bend him the right way. He went to school with a toy gun and police shot him when he aimed the toy at them. He had used a magic marker to black out the orange on the barrel.

[goatmanmitch]

My stomach wrenched even harder when I heard Sandy Hook. Not that it makes it any better, but I was relieved to read that Chris and Jeremy's families were not in harms way. So hard to comprehend.

I'm out of town for the weekend, wish I could hug my kids now.

[Nomadac]

Facts of shooting:
1. 20 students and 6 adults including shooter killed for total of 27 at school and mother at home for total of 28.
2. Only one shooter.
3. Only two pistols found with killer inside school, a Sig Sauer and Glock. The Bushmaster was found in his mother's car that the shooter drove to the school.
4. Guns were stolen from his mother after she was shot.
5. His father is alive and well and cooperating with the police, along with his older brother who's identity was found on the shooter. His brother is also cooperating with the Police and was at work at the time of the shooting. Brother said he has not communicated with the shooter since 2010.
6. Shooter got into the school by breaking a window and was not buzzed in as previously reported.
7. Actual # of shots fired has not been confirmed at this time, which reports have ranged from 60-100.
8. Everyone killed were shot with a 9mm handgun.

The media in their rush to to be first, have reported much false information, which many have assumed to be factual.

[Old Goat Racer]

Newtown, CT is over a 1000 miles from me. At first I thought I can't possibly know anyone from there. Then I read Jeremy's post. Now it feels like it's in my town.
Hope to see you at Norwalk next year. Hang tough.

[pugslyx234]

Life is precious and we all take for granit so we need to look out for each other and thank God everyday for his gifts.

[PonchoV8]

Jim, it's true. The majority of the murderous monsters in America come from single mother homes. Also, look at how many of these shooters have been on prescribed psychotropics as children. The media won't touch either of these causes/topics in depth.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Gentlemen,

What we have is a general breakdown of society. A Korean rapper whose "music" glorifies killing Americans is HONORED at the White House? We have a couple of generations that have no regard for life. They've been bombarded with violence to the point where it MUST seem normal. As a former CT resident, CT has some of the most stringent gun control regulations in the U.S. (including CCW regs), yet did they (the laws) prevent what is being described as a "troubled" young man from killing 27 people? We live in a world were very few possess a moral compass. We do what we want, when we want to with little to no regard how it effects others. This is no different. HOW do you explain this to the surviving children? My prayers go out to the families. May God in His infinite mercy comfort them.

[PonchoV8]

Knock off the references to the White House politics!

And it's false that very few have a moral compass.

[Nomadac]

Originally Posted by PonchoV8

I have wondered if she had the weapons in her name because of him being unstable, but she didn't want to deprive him of his joy for them. In other words she enabled him by giving him access (strawman purchase) when he was "mentally defective", as the yellow sheet asks in one of the questions when purchasing a firearm.

Single mother? Notorious for raising the worst monsters on the planet.
And it's false that very few have a moral compass. And you know this how?

More speculation, where are the facts? Many school shooters came from a two parent family.

If you research School Shootings since 1997 there have been 13 in a 15 year period where 89 students of adults have been killed with 101 injured. Of the shootings 7 shooters shot themselves, and 5 parents of the shooter(s). were killed.

[Ogre]

I'm not ready to lay blame anywhere just yet, but sometimes you get hit right between the eyes for a start!

I was getting a haircut this morning, and my barber had the TV Land channel on. Ben, Hoss, and Little Joe from "Bonanza" were explaining to someone the difference between right and wrong.

Are there any shows on our TVs today that still do this? (That's a rhetorical question.) I know that we can't "put the genie back in the bottle", but We, The People better start trying to figure out what is wrong with our society, and demand that it be fixed by ...
.
.
.
.
WE THE PEOPLE.

Ogre

[PonchoV8]

Originally Posted by Nomadac

More speculation, where are the facts? Many school shooters came from a two parent family.

Where did my post say anything about "school shooters"? HINT: You won't find it.

If you research School Shootings since 1997 there have been 13 in a 15 year period where 89 students of adults have been killed with 101 injured. Of the shootings 7 shooters shot themselves, and 5 parents of the shooter(s). were killed.

And this still has nothing to do with my post as shown in my quote that YOU used.
Thanks for combining different posts to TRY to create the illusion I made them together.

[Nomadac]

Originally Posted by PonchoV8

Jim, it's true. The majority of the murderous monsters in America come from single mother homes. Also, look at how many of these shooters have been on prescribed psychotropics as children. The media won't touch either of these causes/topics in depth.

Since this post is about School Shootings it is implied by your response. I guess that logic escapes you same as vocabulary.

[PonchoV8]

I disagree that it's one of that variety of shootings.
This is not another "school shooting" event, which is probably where the confusion is regarding my statements.
School shootings are typically students of similar age targeting other students or staff.
This is a monstrous mass murder that happened at a school since it's an adult attacking mostly 5-10 yr olds. Postal shootings and typical school shootings (IMO) fall under work place violence. I haven't seen it reported that he was ever employed or involved romantically with any of the staff, etc..

I will say I bet he was on Ritalin derivatives (or similar) as a child. In many of these mass murders AND school shootings, that's a fact that comes out if you listen long enough. I bet it'll come out.

[bird72]

As everyone, I am numb from this latest tragedy. Children should be sacred!

Something needs to change.

I just read the number of gas stations in USA is only slightly higher than the number of gun dealers. I am a handgun owner. I always was staunch no infringement on gun rights stance. I have had enough. I would get fingerprinted, photo'd, and safety tested if that would help. I would go with more restrictions. I would go with stiff laws and if you break them jail. If is saved people's lives. This needs to be very carefully thought through however. I do not see gun rights advocates even trying to come up with a solution. It is time we all have to admit change is needed and how can we do it!

There are other issues:

Somehow the MEDIA is part of this situation, it gives the instant fame to the kilers.

Somehow the film indistry is part of the desensitizing and glorifying violence.

Somehow the culture and stance of "Not Involved" is part of it also.

Somehow the sheer number and availabilty of guns is part of the issue, it HAS to be.

Food for thought: maybe regulating the number of guns is a daunting task. How about making buying BULLETS more restrictive, and harder?

I don't know the answers, but it is time gun owners, like myself, take responsibilty for coming up with a solution, and not the illogical "we should all be armed" response.

I won't give up my gun, but I would take tough laws, and penalties.

Last food for thought, I really wonder how many of the blatant gun rights people would actually march in on a blazing AR15 and do something??? .... get in the line of fire first.... I know some would, but real life, and when yours is part of the deal, make it harder.

[PonchoV8]

My answer to that is you're going into politics again. These were all FEDERALLY APPROVED TRANSFERS with background checks as was the VA Tech shooting pistols, the Aurora shooting fireams, the Oregon shooting weapons, etc., etc.. The Oregon rifle was stolen from the owner that day.
And when you're offering your rights back to the same body that has been selling assault style rifles to criminals from a foreign nation, what are you hoping to achieve? We need the right to buy these firearms because the government is arming the criminals who have killed 50 thousand Mexicans in recent years and at least one border agent. Get a grip.

[David Holmberg]

At my youngest sons school (he's in 2nd grade) there is only one door people can enter without a key. They have the locked doors on either side of the office desk, However, if you jumped over the desk you would be inside the "safe zone". Without making knee-jerk suggestions, bank style windows would help. Make a secure entry area, with an emergency button that closes and locks every door and contacts the police.

Each classroom door locks when closed now (teachers keep the key around their necks). Our middle and high schools all have Resource officers on school grounds that are armed Police officers. One person can't be everywhere, but if you can slow an attacker down and help contain them...

Ok, if we secure the schools what's next? Hospitals?

[sleepy]

Originally Posted by bird72

As everyone, I am numb from this latest tragedy. Children should be sacred!

Something needs to change.

I just read the number of gas stations in USA is only slightly higher than the number of gun dealers. I am a handgun owner. I always was staunch no infringement on gun rights stance. I have had enough. I would get fingerprinted, photo'd, and safety tested if that would help. I would go with more restrictions. I would go with stiff laws and if you break them jail. If is saved people's lives. This needs to be very carefully thought through however. I do not see gun rights advocates even trying to come up with a solution. It is time we all have to admit change is needed and how can we do it!

There are other issues:

Somehow the MEDIA is part of this situation, it gives the instant fame to the kilers.

Somehow the film indistry is part of the desensitizing and glorifying violence.

Somehow the culture and stance of "Not Involved" is part of it also.

Somehow the sheer number and availabilty of guns is part of the issue, it HAS to be.

Food for thought: maybe regulating the number of guns is a daunting task. How about making buying BULLETS more restrictive, and harder?

I don't know the answers, but it is time gun owners, like myself, take responsibilty for coming up with a solution, and not the illogical "we should all be armed" response.

I won't give up my gun, but I would take tough laws, and penalties.

Last food for thought, I really wonder how many of the blatant gun rights people would actually march in on a blazing AR15 and do something??? .... get in the line of fire first.... I know some would, but real life, and when yours is part of the deal, make it harder.

Where to start?
We already have MANY laws in place and punishment for breaking those laws.
How would more or stricter laws or the threat of more severe punishment prevent someone who already decided he wouldn't live to see the sunset have stopped this?
HE didn't buy the guns or the ammo, They belonged to his mother.(who he killed first)
The mall shooter. Stole the gun from a friend of his.(there ARE laws against stealing the last time I checked)
People who do stuff like this don't give a rats backside about the law, They will do it regardless of what the law is.
Your approach would take guns away from people who follow the law and does NOTHING about people who don't follow the law.
This guy was a mental case. His family knew it and did nothing about it. There's too much "not my little angel" and not enough punishment for bad behavior.