[Judge273]

Alvin that vert is owned by one of the yenko guys? I remember someone from Mexico owning one with a blue top?

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Judge273

Alvin that vert is owned by one of the yenko guys? I remember someone from Mexico owning one with a blue top?

Mike, there are three with the blue top, that one is not the Mexico car - it was Charlie's, which came from Matt.

The pictures were in my e-mail yesterday - I have no idea who sent them, but I think I was played!

[pont406]

Got this Article from, Musclecars Magazine, January 1989, about Milt Robson and his collection, has small pics of all three of the T/A verts.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Judge273

Alvin that vert is owned by one of the yenko guys? I remember someone from Mexico owning one with a blue top?

I do not know if it is or not. But I have been enjoying reading about these 8 GR8 Pontiacs!

[intense]

Those pics are from the re-bodied ram air IV Trans am that was on eBay a little while back .. I am almost sure ..

[roundportponchos]

A friend of my Dad's said he had one that he wrecked in early 70's As the story goes, ins co totaled it. I think he said it was in N.Y @ the the time.

[frankyboy455]

Originally Posted by intense

Those pics are from the re-bodied ram air IV Trans am that was on eBay a little while back .. I am almost sure ..

which pics ? what post # ?

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Keith,
It is always amusing listening to people who have never been to Detroit and have no clue as to what we have here. All of the evaluation cars and one offs. A real factory built '68 Z-68 convertible. A Chevy powered factory built Mongusta. The "one of" preproduction "sign off" cars etc that are privately owned.

After all Keith, do you really believe this guy would believe you if you told him what you or any of the other guys have been drivng around from engineering? LOL

You just have to shake your head and move on.
Eric

Here are picutres of Pete Estes 1968 Z-28 Camaro Convertible once owned by the late Al Maynard. Taken in 2009.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Here are picutres of Pete Estes 1968 Z-28 Camaro Convertible once owned by the late Al Maynard. Taken in 2009.

I'd take all of those listed/shown options on ANY car. Thank you for the post!

[intense]

The pics from post number 94 ... Wasn't there a ram air IV re bodied on eBay and they were selling the parts car ? Is that not the Pics ?

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

Dr Schiffer, I did read your story in the other section, and I mentioned that in earlier in this thread. It's a great read. Not sure why you appear to be so angry.

I was clearing up misinformation you stated about the Carousel Red 1969 Firebird engineering car. You stated it was a Trans Am prototype. It was not. The information I quoted was from Mr. Sawruk, who wrote a detailed article on the car back in 1992.

I also relayed a story from Milt's book about the 350 H.O. car. I know Milt's name is mud. I simply relayed a story he had about how well the 350 H.O. ran. No harm done.

You stated : "So, please do not quote magazine articles to me or any one else for that matter. They are meant as a good read but are NOT factual by any stretch of the imagination. They sell product, magzines and car stuff. "

So you're saying to ignore everything Mr. Sawruk, Jim Wangers, Herb Adams, Pete McCarthy, John Schinella, Bill Porter, Tom Goad, and Mac McKellar ever wrote over the past 30+ years for HPP, Pontiac Enthusiast, and various other articles? That's where I get my information from. It's a shame you appear not to have faith in anything that was ever written or published. Gary Witzenburg and Michael Lamm also spent years putting together their books, which contained exhaustive research, direct quotes, and first-hand accounts from these gentlemen back in the 1980's, before things became clouded through the sands of time.

I referenced Oldham's book because he states the 1969 Firebird he tested was a RAIV, and it wasn't. That's a fact, and I stated earlier why it's a fact. I used logic and documentation, not someone's fuzzy memory, which Oldham apparently had. Just setting the record straight.

I do appreciate your input, and I also respect the fact you were involved in all this stuff back in the day. I simply corrected one piece of information where you stated the 455 H.O. Carousel Red car was a prototype Trans Am, which it was not. If Mr. Sawruk made up the story, then please provide documentation to the contrary.

And if these old magazine articles are all BS, please stop posting them.

Thank you.

Mike,
I present you my documentation. I'd like to introduce some of my long time friends.

Just in case you don't recongnize them from your readings they are: Jim Wangers having his 75th Birthday at my home.

I'm sitting next to the late Mac McKellar at a past Pontiac dinner I had hosted. On Mac's left side is John Banach, GM Engine Engineer. John worked on the LT and LS engine development including the LS9 in the new ZR-1.

I had the late John Sawruk do presentaions at several of my dinners. In one picture Mac McKeller is sitting next to a standing John Sawruk. Some where in the audiance is Fred Simmonds, who has also done presentations at some of these dinners too.

Herb Adams with his grey beard is standing in front of his Contessa's hood on the right. This was taken at one of our Saturday morning gatherings at Pasteiner's Auto Zone Hobbies. The store is located on Woodward in Birmingham. This is where many of the industries current and past auto enthusiasts show up. From 8 AM till 10 AM. Everyone is always welcome.

Then at this years, 2011, Dream Cruise at Fresard Buick. The two men standing are, Tom Goad, PMD Trans Am group from 1969, on the left, and Ben Harrison, PMD Product development on the on the right.

These are not a one time events. We even exchanged phone numbers and saw one another throughout the year. LOL

If you would like all of the authors, producers of Cable/TV automotive shows and documentaries I have consulted with? Or books, magazines and program credits my name has appeared. I'll submit my resume too.

I'll be seeing Herb Adams next week. He is currently recovering from surgery. So, if you have a serious questions I will ask these men.

And I leave shaking my head laughing.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Mike,
Doesn't it make you wonder why automotive authors, photographers, TV and documenatry producers like: Jim Wangers, the late Paul Zazarine, Stan Rarden, Michael Rose, Charles Morris, Darwin Holstrom and David Newhardt to name a few. Would want me to assistant in their projects? I don't think it was because a read HHP do you?

Since you like reading, I'm sure you will find my name here.

"Pontiac's Great One GTO" by Darwin Holstrom and David Newhardt. "Acknowledgements" page 6 last paragraph.

"American Muscle Supercars" by David Newhardt, "Acknowledgments" page 6 sceond column.

"Factory Lightweights Detroit Drag Racing Specials of the '60's" Acknowledgments" page5, Chapter 6 page 99, side bar, Chapter 9 page 157.

May be this should get you some insite of who I am. Or May be not! LOL

As I shake my head laughing very loud.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Sorry, I promise this is it. LOL For now!

[ry57pont]

someone has a big head

[MikeNoun]

Yeah really, thanks for your resume Dr. Schiffer. Do you need a convertible to get your massive ego inside your car?

All I did was point out you made a mistake in your post. You were wrong about the Carousel Red 1969 Firebird being a 1969 Trans Am prototype, and now you come back listing all your "connections" to impress us.

The history of these cars, and the people that created them, have already been written about in hundreds of books and magazines. The gentlemen you listed have already been interviewed in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, right up till today. It's all down on paper, it's all in their own books, it's all in their own articles.

Didn't realize you'd be so touchy when someone found an error in one of your posts, but after reading your Pontiac Stories thread, and seeing how you treated other people that mistakenly tried to correct something you said, I now understand your personality.

Funny, but I've met many of those people you associate with, if nothing else just to shake their hands. None of them seem to have the attitude or ego you do.

[Alvin]

Dr. E: At Jim Wangers 75th birthday gathering; Jim’s West Coast Pontiac collection was displayed during the 2001 Tour De Wangers open house and car show.


Question: What were the Detroit area versions of Wangers Pontiacs? They were mentioned by Jim when talking about Woodward etc.



Also, please refresh my memory: Didn’t Jim also have more Pontiacs based in Florida at that time? Ex: 69GTO, 69 T/A, 79 TATA, etc?

I mention it and ask because I seem to remember Jim talking about some more Pontiacs he had in Florida and it was becoming a bit much for him to maintain several locations and vehicles then. True?

I noticed your Wangers 1969 T/A Woodward pics show a white painted chin spoiler on that TA.



Also, seems that there were at least two (2) separate 69 Judges he owned with the “Wangers” MI license plates. True?

John Sawruk, Pontiac Consulting (w/ yours truly)…in front of Jim Wangers West Coast 1969 GTO Judge. John's presentation of Pontiac history was a vital portion of the 75th birthday celebration.
http://www.tachrev.com/Web_Pages/2.1...rsPhoto90.html

[John Haley]

Those are alot of nice pictures, but what does any of them have to do with the title of this thread.

Who can show us a picture of the car in the title of this thread. Anybody? Nobody? A picture will tell the whole story. No picture, no story of finding it to be told.

I need evidence, so far I have seen none.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Alvin

Dr. E: At Jim Wangers 75th birthday gathering; Jim’s West Coast Pontiac collection was displayed during the 2001 Tour De Wangers open house and car show.


Question: What were the Detroit area versions of Wangers Pontiacs? They were mentioned by Jim when talking about Woodward etc.



Also, please refresh my memory: Didn’t Jim also have more Pontiacs based in Florida at that time? Ex: 69GTO, 69 T/A, 79 TATA, etc?

I mention it and ask because I seem to remember Jim talking about some more Pontiacs he had in Florida and it was becoming a bit much for him to maintain several locations and vehicles then. True?

I noticed your Wangers 1969 T/A Woodward pics show a white painted chin spoiler on that TA.



Also, seems that there were at least two (2) separate 69 Judges he owned with the “Wangers” MI license plates. True?

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&postcount=222

[intense]

Great Pics .... Where those taken on Woodward ?

[Firebob]

John,
Totally agree. All this chatter and vacation pics are nice and all but I don't really give a sh.. It seems that the guys in the know, know where all the verts are and who owns them. I realize some of these guys are kind of private about their collections but I also know that they haven't owned them forever either so there should be pics of all 8, if they are stilll in existence, in somebody's file. Post them up if you dare....
Yeah right! Not gonna happen. Do I need to call somebody a poser?