[GREATGTO]

Originally Posted by goatracer

Well, after looking at a finished Pro Port chamber, I guess Bruce's question/concern was legit, huh. The plug location has clearly been moved towards the center of the bore/biased towards EXH. Now, what effect this will have on a running engine has yet to be seen.

I know other brands use this design as well. What are some pros and cons to this update?


Bryan

I agree! Looks too bias towards the exhaust, I guess we'll wait and see how it pans out..

A few people mentioned this besides Bruce so at least we know he isn't the only person who knows how to spot potential problems. Not saying there is one yet but testing will find out.

That port looks good Calvin!

[GREATGTO]

Originally Posted by Daniel Barton

First off no, I dont think the plug is going to be where you think it is, keep in mind that the plug hole is at an angle and once the chamber is done it will probably be a half to three quarters of an inch up that hole where the plug will be peeking out, I really had no intention of commenting on the plug location until I have the casting in my hands but it appears you are choosing to make a big stink out of this before anyone seems to have gotten that far along with this head casting. I think when people are farther along with this thing, at least as far as having the chamber roughed in, would be the time to bring this up, normally when I have done a head like this with no chamber in it they also dont have a plug hole located and we have done that last trying to get it as close to the center as possible. Im glad that people have decided to continue posting in this thread because it appeared to have been killed for a day or so... I really dont intend to comment anymore about this casting until I have had a chance to get it and spend some time with it.

Looks like you were wrong "Mr pro" based on Calvins pic no? I know you said you dont usually comment on a head before you have it but you let a knuckle dragger like Bruce see something you should be able to see I would think?

Ps I call Bruce a knuckle dragger with love! lol

[GREATGTO]

Calvin, did you keep the port kinda square so it can be used with an existing intake rather than going oval which may need a whole new intake or one with heavy welding to work?

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by GREATGTO

Calvin, did you keep the port kinda square so it can be used with an existing intake rather than going oval which may need a whole new intake or one with heavy welding to work?

This port will require quite a bit of manifold modification. When we decided to spend the time of this head, it will need to outperform all other heads currently on the market.

If I was a smart guy, I would change direction of this head by moving the valves, the rocker placement and design a port to bolt on to current E-heads owners.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

[GREATGTO]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

This port will require quite a bit of manifold modification. When we decided to spend the time of this head, it will need to outperform all other heads currently on the market.

If I was a smart guy, I would change direction of this head by moving the valves, the rocker placement and design a port to bolt on to current E-heads owners.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

Seems like most of them just want a bolt on 400 cfm head that doesn't need high dollar components to work.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by GREATGTO

Seems like most of them just want a bolt on 400 cfm head that doesn't need high dollar components to work.

We have that head, its called the High Port

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

This port will require quite a bit of manifold modification. When we decided to spend the time of this head, it will need to outperform all other heads currently on the market.

If I was a smart guy, I would change direction of this head by moving the valves, the rocker placement and design a port to bolt on to current E-heads owners.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

What would have to be changed on the intake? Is the port to tall or wide for a Victor?

[BruceWilkie]

Great....gto... I appreciate positive acknowledgement but it does none of us any good when we do so by knocking down others. Dont let passion or emotion for things put you in a place you dont belong. Not much you can do about past arguments and such. Put those away best you can and move forward. Nothing wrong with taking a stand for what you believe in but try to do it in a more constructive way that reflects the good in you.
Too many things in life far more important. Aint none of us perfect. We all slip once in awhile.

There's an old old book that tells us that. Its worth reviewing from time to time.

I'm looking out for you brother.

[Jim Robertson]

Ceralli or Johnny or anyone watching this thread, do you have the beginning runner area of the as cast Tiger intake? Even though my roughed in port is designed/sized within the casting of the Victor, I believe that manifold is fairly small for a +400 cfm port.

[cfmcnc]

Jim ,will post tomorrow from the shop,got CRS ,watching from home.Bill C.

[dci]

Jim, If you mean port opening, it is 2.600 X 1.300 as cast. The port is tall and narrow at the opening and gets wider down stream.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-628-3354 cell
330-850-5050 shop
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!

[dci]

Forgot to mention the 12.6 degree port I am playing with that I got 428 cfm out of is 2.300 X 1.300, and the 390 cfm port is 2.300 X 1.100. I think that with what you and Calvin have will easily surpass the port I have. It looks like in the photos anyway, that your port openings are around 2.650 X 1.400. My csa at the opening is only 2.99 and that would make yours if I'm close around 3.700. The Tigers are 3.38 csa at the opening. Looking good!!!! I think I might open up my 428 cfm port and see what it can do. I need to pull a mold from it first though.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-628-3354 cell
330-850-5050 shop
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!

[cgeise]

Its kind of interesting to watch the transformation from " I can't, it will not happen, not possable- ect, ect" that the thread started with ,to HERE IT IS in such a short time, it just proves that when some one is willing to "invest" a little time and effort stuff can happen very quickly. To those that are contributing - thank you.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by bryansMtngto

also got the allpontiac if all your after is heads that flow over 400cfm. What i like about the ProPort is you can design it for your application. So far really like the info be shared on here. Do see a few questions raised, looking foward to see how a port turns out finished and what the result is.

Yep people need to understand the benefit of the custom fit it provides for an application vs one size fits all. You can also develop a catalog of ports to chose from that would be easiest starting point to fine tune to an application. Many developers are already doing that with other heads.

I like the shared info too. NOW is the time to find things to address and prevent things that might come back later to hurt the program..

[Jim Robertson]

Don thanks for posting...I'll take your port opening dimensions of 2.600 x 1.300 as the head flange numbers. Sorry for the confusion but I did mean the beginning runner area at the plenum of the Tiger intake. Not sure if the as cast intake has +7 sq inches.

At this point these are quite a bit less than 3.38 sq in. at the flange.

Avg Velocity of 420cfm through a 3.38sq in opening would be right at 300ft/sec...From all indications we have that number would work real good.

[cfmcnc]

Jim ,the Tiger manifold is .050 smaller all around than the cast head port entry,but has lots of material to open crossection,Manifold runner crosssection is 4.5 sq-in at the plenum.Bill C.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Jim Robertson

Avg Velocity of 420cfm through a 3.38sq in opening would be right at 300ft/sec...From all indications we have that number would work real good.

Ford Engineering has been using that approximate 300 ft/sec number for years, Jim, (back in the 60s on the 427 Le Mans program. I told Pete McCarthy to stay around that number, (at Jim Butler's Memorial Day Race one year), and that info sailed right over Pete's head.

Tom Vaught

[Jim Robertson]

Yeah Tom that number still works good after all these years. To some its like an old classic.

[7T2]

Originally Posted by Daniel Barton

normally when I have done a head like this with no chamber in it they also dont have a plug hole located and we have done that last trying to get it as close to the center as possible.

i concur with the ford engineer-
adequate plug cooling requires careful consideration of surrounding liquid and solid thermal conductivity coefficients for proper cooling. per suggestion, arbitrary plug placement wont cut it in most castings, although SOME latitude of placement can be gained from proper thin wall design around said areas for air cooling. at best, it is a compromise.

jim

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Its kind of interesting to watch the transformation from " I can't, it will not happen, not possable- ect, ect" that the thread started with ,to HERE IT IS in such a short time, it just proves that when some one is willing to "invest" a little time and effort stuff can happen very quickly. To those that are contributing - thank you.

I'm actually offended by this comment. First off, we have a port that is pretty decent, but it doesn't exceed my CV-1 head, KRE HP's I've worked or the Tiger head coming from AP. I also had a new set of 12.6's for sale almost a year ago, no takers here on this board when at the time, no one else could get them. As far as the amount of time we have in this port, it would cost well over $5K to cover the hours spent in development and we don't have the port digitized for CNC yet.

We should be able to post final flow data and final pricing by the end of next week, at this point we have a head flowing:

216 cfm @.300
347 cfm @.500
441 cfm @.700

Thanks.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420