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#101
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We had a batch of steel hubs cast, made the molds myself.
If some of you feel so strongly about iron heads and believe there is a market - buck up and make them. You may however wish to talk to Jeff Kauffmann first. |
#102
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Sidetrack post
What were the Air Flow Research angle plug RamAir 4 heads made of ? Have only seen pictures of 3 sets , and can't remember now. I think the 1970 Judge Knafel Tin Indian wears a pair of them. AFR is still in business making/selling heads Would they own the molds, or would PMD have owned the molds ? |
#103
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As expected when a company is bought out, the last couple sets of heads we have worked with came in with flaws. One had a single intake valve the wrong size installed in the head. If run that way , it would have been a disaster. Another was dirty and everything installed dry. Sad, but expected when a company is bought out. IMO, it would be a one in a million chance that anyone or anything involved in a PMD project from over 40 years ago would still be laying around. |
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#104
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https://www.motortrend.com/news/hppp...ntiac-gto/amp/
Talks about the RA IV angle plug head engine toward the end of this article. Was quite an engine. |
#105
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Based on this quote from the article Jay posted a link to. I would say that they were Pontiac cast heads. The angle plug sounds like what was done to many Chevy heads back then. You plugged the spark plug hole and then drilled a new angled spark plug hole. Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#106
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Two pretty good pictures of the heads from 2009 Mecum auction.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0509-79...iac-gto-judge/ I was feeling pretty sure they were iron heads. But sounds like they were castings supplied by PMD. Maybe they were partial machined without the plug holes bored yet. Or just modded some other way to get them angled.. They look "born-with" practically. Anyway - dead end street |
#107
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#108
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I have zero direct knowledge on the AFR heads but it would seem like the water jackets would need to be altered for an angle plug version. Notable that there are differences in plug angle among some OEM heads. Factory RA-V are conspicuously different.
Eric
__________________
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" noted philosopher Mike Tyson Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. “The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions.” |
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#109
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Mike, Eric, there was an article in one of the old car mags, I'm guessing in the early to mid 70s where some Pontiac racer was converting his conventional iron heads to an angle plug merely by plugging the original hole with a steel plug, then re-drilling, and tapping the new hole. I cannot recall the claimed power gains, but it must have been something to go through the trouble of making the change.
I never heard of anyone else doing that conversion but that one magazine article, so it never garnered much favor with racers. |
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#110
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell Last edited by hurryinhoosier62; 01-31-2023 at 05:26 PM. |
#111
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If angle vs straight spark plugs were the only compromise, I think most would be OK with straight spark plugs. There may be a tiny advantage to angle plugs, but not a show stopper IMO. It's all the other legitimate concerns that make a project like this complicated. If I had a pile of money to throw away, I would just have some made and not be concerned with even breaking even. When people/companies make parts for Pontiac engines, the general goal is "can I make this for the Pontiac hobby and not lose a huge amount of money". It's never "' I am going to make a killing on these cylinder heads". That just never happens in the Pontiac world. It's too small.
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#112
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^^^Yep, and when it comes to that, we also have to take into consideration todays market and the direction this country has been heading. Hasn't been easy for business these days to stay afloat let alone even think about taking on a new project that likely won't pay off anyway.
We stood a better chance of getting something like this done a few years ago. Most likely have to wait a few more years and hope things turn around for the better by then and revisit the subject. But I still won't hold my breath. |
#113
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Has anyone mentioned investment casting? In a former life, I did a great deal of this.
The lost Styrofoam castings that I have studied were pretty impressive- dramatically less machining. Might be a great way to cast iron...
__________________
"At no time did we exceed 175 mph.” Dan Gurney's truthful response to his and Brock Yate's winning of the first ever Cannonball Baker Sea-to-Shining Sea... Still have my 1st Firebird 7th Firebird 57 Starchief |
#114
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All we need is basically just one good millionaire .
He can buy out - or partner with - the slow motion exhaust manifold supplier , and get that end working. Then start pouring up the RoundPort heads right here in USA As a vested junior associate to the janitor , I would in exchange provide a 614 and a 7F6 for templates. If they have to be destroyed to get it right - I want a bigger promotion. |
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#115
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I may be wrong here, but I don't think lost foam method can be used for iron due to the temperatures involved vs aluminum. Fairly certain sand castings are the least expensive way to form iron castings. I bet someone on here knows for sure.
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#116
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Quote:
__________________
“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell |
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#117
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Investment casting might be a possibility using the lost wax method, but not with foam. Springfield Armory casts their M1A receivers by the lost wax method.
__________________
“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell |
#118
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I would personally like to see a head cast to look like a ram air II or IV factory head but cast in aluminum. I would buy a set of those or two.
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#119
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It's a ton of work to disguise a set if you go through the trouble to duplicate core plugs, duplicate the cast iron texture surface etc... |
#120
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Doesn't cutting back the sparkplug's GND lug make angled plugs moot?
Iron Roundport manifolds with good flow seems needed, and then them roundport heard with outofdabox 280+ CFM. |
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