[GTO Dan]

Woooooo....it's getting hot in here.

If we could just get a few pictures of topless women with PY written across their chest this thread would be full of win and YB TOBT quailty (and I am not sure all would find that to be a good thing).

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Thanks guys for all the comments.

The question was raised: Why didn't we include other heads in our test, such as Tigers, Warp 6's, ProPorts, etc. The answer is threefold. First and foremost, we already had the wideport E heads. Second, the E head camp was the most vocal in their criticism of the CV-1, so it seemed a logical choice for a comparison test. Third is time and expense. This was not a gimme from Roland Racing. They supplied the heads, intake and valve covers. We supplied everything else, including shaft rockers, pushrods, lifters, gaskets, machine work and dyno time.

We went to great lengths to assure a level playing field. This included cutting .050 off the E heads and using a thicker head gasket with the CV-1's to equalize the compression ratio. After head gasket requirements were determined, ordered and mocked up, we could then measure for correct pushrod lengths for both sets of heads. The Victor intake was already ported as previously mentioned in my first post. The CV-1 intake ports had to be opened up to match the gaskets and the plenum area was opened up as well, so as not to give an advantage to the ported Victor. This was the early, low profile "fit under the hood" manifold. Obviously both manifolds also had to be cut to fit. Needless to say, we had a lot of hours invested in making this test. So if any of you want to step up with your motor and do multiple head testing - have at it.

The wideport E heads flowed 380+ cfm, not 350 or less. I don't think we would have seen 780 hp with a 350 cfm head. In fact, 780 hp is on the upper end of stock block power combos. And you can count on one hand the number of stock block combos making over 800 hp.

The pistons are .100 in the hole to give us a bigger nitrous tuning window. Thus the lower compression ratio (11:1) and loss of quench. Didn't seem to hurt. Interesting.

To answer a few questions, yes we used the same headers and cam. The oil pan and timing cover never came off. Also to clear up some confusion, the average torque and horsepower numbers were not an average from multiple pulls. They were the average over the test range from 5500 rpm to 7500 rpm on the best single pull. This is the rpm range that the motor will be working in. So when we saw increases of 23 ft. lbs. and 34 hp through this 2000 rpm span, we smiled.

We have wonderful choices for cylinder heads: Tigers, Warp6's, HP's, ProPorts, CV-1's RAV's E heads, etc. It's a good time for Pontiac enthusiasts.

Dick Fulton

Dick do you know what the CV-1 flowed?

[GTOGEORGE]

Normally if you're a good delay box racer you can also foot brake, just saying.

GTO George

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Thanks guys for all the comments.


The wideport E heads flowed 380+ cfm, not 350 or less. I don't think we would have seen 780 hp with a 350 cfm head. In fact, 780 hp is on the upper end of stock block power combos. And you can count on one hand the number of stock block combos making over 800 hp.
Dick Fulton

I would agree with that. I was impressed that either head cracked 800 let alone the CV1 was the only one of the two. Thanks for taking the time.

[adam woodmancy]

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

IMHO, lil jack wasn't trying to insult bracket racers.

I'm with you Adam until you get into the full electronics bracket racing, then its more video game and less driver talent. Yes you gotta be good, but I'll take a good ole foot brake driver that knows how to work the pedal over a box any day. (for talent)

Here ya go Dave. My 2010 shirts.
Buttons are for blouses.. :-)

[adam woodmancy]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kinsler

THATHAPPENEDAGAIN.. I doubt it..



BTW this is the internet..... you dont have to read any of this..... Jack is fast and he can talk chit if he wants.

Jack doesn't have anything to worry about.. I was 7 tenths and 10 mph faster than him when I turned drinking age... It's not going to scare me any

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... now that's funny ...

... like it or not, this test of Dick's is completely relevant, and represents the gains possible for a WP E-Head user looking to change to a CV-1 top end, while i think this type of switch would most likely be a fully CNC'd set of CV-1's instead of unported ones, it was still nice to see the increases in HP & TQ on this combo going from the CNC'd WP's ...

... i think an even better test would be unported E-Heads to unported CV-1's, while the costs would be cheaper for the E-Head combo in that test, i think the power difference would more than justify the increase in cost, JMO ...

... which in my mind now raises the question, what unported cylinder head can make over 800hp on a stock block in pump gas trim ?? ...

Just an fyi... you guys are the only ones interested in testing unported eheads and I might add it sounds silly as h3ll every time you say it. At this power level to start out unported ehead is well not smart when you can buy high ports and tigers(and yes CV1s). I would suggest you focus on the test against wide ports and forget the unported nonsense.JMO

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by GTO Dan

Woooooo....it's getting hot in here.

If we could just get a few pictures of topless women with PY written across their chest this thread would be full of win and YB TOBT quailty (and I am not sure all would find that to be a good thing).

I would as long as they are hot and over 24 years old

[johnta1]

IMHO, lil jack wasn't trying to insult bracket racers.

Sorry, Dave I think he was.
May not have been at Adam, probably at George.

But it takes more than a couple fast test and tune rented track times to make a racer, bracket racer or not.



Now back to topic?

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Just an fyi... you guys are the only ones interested in testing unported eheads and I might add it sounds silly as h3ll every time you say it. At this power level to start out unported ehead is well not smart when you can buy high ports and tigers(and yes CV1s). I would suggest you focus on the test against wide ports and forget the unported nonsense.JMO

... i can see you dont seem interested in an "Unported" test Mike, and i cant disregard your opinion on that, but i do disagree that nobody is or would be interested in a comparison like that ...

... i would be willing to bet there are a lot more unported aftermarket heads running around versus fully CNC'd WP's, maybe i'm wrong, but IMO most people want to bolt stuff on and go play ...

... but it certainly doesn't seem any more or less silly than comparing an unported, rocker arm capable head, to a fully CNC ported Shaft-Only set of WP's does it ?? ...

... now the E-Head would be a cheaper route in unported form yes, but i think it would give the Pontiac enthusiast a real good idea of potential HP/TQ from each combo compared to what they may or may not be willing to spend money wise, i think some might go either direction just based on cost alone, depends on that persons budget really ...

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by adam woodmancy

I'll tell ya what jack.. I'll buy a ticket out there, get in your car and lay down a pass just as quick as you do in your own car, then I'll buy you a ticket to come here, put you in my car, and lets see you cut something better than those 140 pro tree lights and see if you can figure out how to turn on an actual win light in a real race, not a time pass... Let me know what your schedule looks like... Then maybe I can come home and sit in front of my computer with a cape and a hard on and pretend like I'm something special too..

Ouch!

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[Region Warrior]

I find it interesting that a standard port head out does another maxed out head.
If just starting to collect parts for a build, know which route i'd go.

And agree on racing a series vs TNT and some do'n some events.
Out every week for points and/or money tears up drive trains and chassis.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... but it certainly doesn't seem any more or less silly than comparing an unported, rocker arm capable head, to a fully CNC ported Shaft-Only set of WP's does it ?? ...

But comparing a RAIV copy head to a raised runner canted valve head isn't silly even if it is ported with shaft rockers. I do realize that the e-head groud is very vocal but using them for your bench make is setting the bar pretty low, imo.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by adam woodmancy

What a dick thing to say.... Let me know when you're test and tune runs put money in your pocket... Cuz my bracket racing does...

Actually I am up to about $1k in winnings this year so far this year.

Last time out we fixed the carb issue and was cutting .023-.60 light on a pro tree.

When the ECM came down to Capitol I won $440, but the bar bill afterwards took over half of it, but it was a good time.

Race hard and have fun!

[WARPed]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

I find it interesting that a standard port head out does another maxed out head.
If just starting to collect parts for a build, know which route I'd go.

.

Agreed, for about $3800-$4000 CV-1s setup vs E wide ports $3500 + $900 - victor + shaft system well over $1000 and the difference in cost of offset lifters....so when it is time to step up your game plan I would give the CV-1's a serious consideration.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

I find it interesting that a standard port head out does another maxed out head.

What is maxed out about this set of e-heads? They fall FAR SHORT of being maxed out cfm wise and I am sure csa wise as well.

[WARPed]

Originally Posted by slowbird

What is maxed out about this set of e-heads? They fall FAIR SHORT of being maxed out cfm wise and I am sure csa wise as well.

Maybe I am missing something but isn't 380ish about the max of a wide port? Or have they gotten more out of them.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by WARPed

Maybe I am missing something but isn't 380ish about the max of a wide port? Or have they gotten more out of them.

380 isnt close to max, sorry

[WARPed]

Originally Posted by slowbird

380 isn't close to max, sorry

OK, I am the first to say I could be wrong, so how far have the Edelbrock Wide Ports (based on the RPM head) gotten to these days? Curious what that would cost to bring them to that level.....anyone?

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by slowbird

What is maxed out about this set of e-heads? They fall FAR SHORT of being maxed out cfm wise and I am sure csa wise as well.

... you've ported a set of WP's before ? ...