[MOJO Catalina]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

There is a table in the manual that gives the lengths of all the different driveshafts on all the different combinations of vehicles. This will help you determine if you need to have one made or find one or if the one you have in your parts car will fit.

What manual are you referring to?
The '63 Shop manual?
If so I'll check it out. What Page?

[Deadhead]

Pg 4A-2 in chassis shop Manual.

Compare your current shaft with their measurements for your car, & you can tell what points they measure from. When you have them made they typically make them shorter, allowing for considerably more lateral movement. Just to give you an idea of what you can get away with.

[Keith Seymore]

Hey guys, here's your bargain TH400 trans (ie, "free"):

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=620737

[MOJO Catalina]

Now, if he'll just hitch that skateboard up to a Speedway bound Semi I'll chase it down with my '60 and scoop it up on the fly...

It would probably cost me $400 in gas and sleepover to go get it but I thank you for the heads-up.

[MOJO Catalina]

The good news is that from posting on that thread, Rapron contacted me about a TH400 that he has. I'm hoping I can get a friend of mine to pick it up and bring it to me at the end of the month.

[MOJO Catalina]

There's a guy on ebay selling rebuilt SH and RH transmissions.
I emailed him and asked if they were the same length (he said he measured them and that they are) and if the SH would fit in my GP. He said yes but that the floor would have to be either cut or pounded upwards with a sledge hammer near the tail (info we already knew here).

He also said the yokes are different on the SH and RH.. Can anybody confirm this?
Are there a different number of splines or is it something else?

[omarsphatt]

Sounds like you're pretty sold on a broken Tarus, and given the level of expertise making that determination, probably correctly so. However, my '63 Safari acted the same way when I got it, and I fixed it (as much as is possible without actually replacing ol' jim) by adjusting it per the manual, and then draining the fluid and refilling with Dexron VI (Valvoline or similar). I did a drain & refill 3 or 4 times before it really started shifting what I would consider to be "right", which really is only my personal definition of correct given that this is the only roto-equipped car I've ever owned. Doesn't shift like any other automatic vehicle I've ever driven, and from what I understand, roto's don't even when they're brand new/freshly rebuilt. At any rate, it's held up over 20,000 miles since I got it...

Just a thought, much cheaper than any replacement, and if it doesn't work, you're only out a case or two of tranny fluid.

[pfilean]

In the various discussion about a 61-64 4 sp HM in place of a Slim Jim (after all the changes in floor) take note that in the shop manual Section 4A (at least its 4A in 1961) the drive shaft overall length for a 4 sp is 4 inches longer than for a Slim Jim. Hey, 4 inches - that's the difference in wheel base for the Bonne or Star Cheif which got the 4 sp. And for the 2 models of Safari which is always 119 wheelbase both transmissions got the same drive shaft length. Which tells me that the transmissions are the same length and that if you made the change you would not need a new driveshaft- maybe just U joints while it is out. Now if you want to put in a TH 400 or something else that is a different story.

[MOJO Catalina]

Unfortunately, Old Jim isn't getting any better no matter what I do.
In fact, he's worse than ever.

I got the carb adjusted real good, chased down a few vacuum leaks and now the engine is running great. I took the car for a test drive and it seemed to shift a bit better from 1st to second but there is no grab into third. It seemed to shift but when accelerator is added it dropped back into second or just revved with no grab at all.
After that attempt, I brought it home and it would barely make it up the curb hump into the driveway. Now it's like there's nothing there at all. No clunk when I select D and nothing when I go all the way to reverse. Trans won't engage at all. I have to push the car around to work on it.

I've been working on other things trying to decide my next step...
There's plenty to do to the car but I sure wish I had old Jim back, at least to his limited working status.

[stevep]

MOJO, Jim, in your case, has seen better days. Don't waste money doing a service on it, it will be like puitting $100.00 down the drain.

[MOJO Catalina]

Yeah, that's what I figured..
I'll be doing some kind of trans dropping here and it will be mandatory that I change the rear oil seal on the engine since it's leaking now. Do I have to drop the engine oil pan and loosten the main caps to drop the crankshaft some? or will the new seal just slide over the back end of the crank and seat into the top edge of the oil pan and block?

[stevep]

You have to remove the pan and rear cap to access the rear main seal. It can be a bit of a problem to get a pan off a big Pontiac with the motor in the car at times.

[Deadhead]

Chilton has a method where you can pull the engine forward a few inches and get to it without taking it all the way out of the car on 389s. Can't be done on the 421 4 bolt main. I have not tried it, but I will post their method if you are interested.

I just used the Graphtite seal for my '63 & it has held fine for about a year. Used BOP Viton seal for my '66 & that also worked well. They both require a decently precise process to install which I don't know if I could have done with the engine in the car. Graphtite maybe. I had to file the metal piece in the viton a little to make sure it was flush, & that would have been difficult under the car.

[stevep]

One thing that I have done with some success with the trans removed is to loosen the rear of the oil pan and put a bead of silicone between the pan and the block. It had helped many times.

[MOJO Catalina]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

Chilton has a method where you can pull the engine forward a few inches and get to it without taking it all the way out of the car on 389s. Can't be done on the 421 4 bolt main. I have not tried it, but I will post their method if you are interested.

I just used the Graphtite seal for my '63 & it has held fine for about a year. Used BOP Viton seal for my '66 & that also worked well. They both require a decently precise process to install which I don't know if I could have done with the engine in the car. Graphtite maybe. I had to file the metal piece in the viton a little to make sure it was flush, & that would have been difficult under the car.

Well, I was hoping I wouldn't have to pull this engine out since it's an AC car so I'll try one of the "in the car" methods. Please post the Chilton method for me. I appreciate it.

Oh, and by the way, not only is the rear main seal leaking now but there's a severe trans fluid leak up front and both oil and trans fluid are leaking into the same puddle.

Additionally, it looks like over the years the exhaust manifold heat got the best of one of the PS hoses and it developed a pin hole. Well, the PS fluid rotted the rubber in the upper control arm bushing. I changed the hose last week with one from the parts car and a day later the the pump stopped working... I cranked the steering wheel manually a few times with no luck. I removed the belt and spun it the other way a few times then put the belt back on, started the engine and after about 3 minutes, it blew a seal (yeah, I know that joke). Got the PS pump of the parts car and we're back to having Wonder Touch Power Steering again..

Man this car is cranky since it's been awaked. It hasn't been on the road since 1987...
My rusty-beyond-repair parts car hadn't run since '76 and it doesn't have the problems this car has..

I keep blowing 30 amp fuses so the next project is to take apart the blower housing, evict the rodents and move their mattresses out the the curb...



Anyway, I got ahold of a TH400 form a 73 Buick. A buddy of mine knows an old school trans guy so I'll be meeting with him next week to discuss the conversion.

[stevep]

Now you are talking. The 400 is the way to go and if something ever goes wrong with it, any trans shop can fix it.

[MOJO Catalina]

not only is the rear main seal leaking now but there's a severe trans fluid leak up front and both oil and trans fluid are leaking into the same puddle.

This started the day the trans totally quit. I guess some seal let loose and now there's no pressure in the trans to allow it to spin?

If an oil leak is "sweating horespower" than what's a trans leak?

Anyway, it's a dead horse now. The starter solenoid is starting to hang up now too so I'm going to pull it and clean it up today. That's when I'll see if my engine is drilled for the newer '65 starter. I have the newer style water pump on this car so hopefully so.

I appreciate you fellas checking in on this saga and will keep the progress reports coming. I think it'll be helpful and encouraging to newbies. I almost didn't buy this car because of the bad Slim Jim reputation but couldn't pass it up for $857.
So far I only have about $1100 invested and by the time I fix the trans I believe it will still be worth about $1000-$1500 more than I'll have into it.

[Deadhead]

"An alternative to factory method is to remove the oil pan & transmission, loosen all the main bearing caps & lower the crankshaft about 3/8". This will allow the removal of the upper half rear bearing seal and the installation of a new one.

Then they have a time saver tip: Drain engine oil & remove pan. Remove rear main bearing cap. With 6" length of 3/16 brazing rod, drive up on either end of the exposed end of top half of seal. When the opposite end starts to protrude, have a helper grasp it with pliers and pull gently while the driven end is being tapped. It is surprising how many of these seals can be removed by this method.

To install obtain about a 12" piece of copper wire. Thread one strand of this wire through the new seal, about 1/2 " from the end, bend back & make secure. Thoroughly saturate the new seal with engine oil. Push the copper wire up through the oil seal groove until it comes down the opposite side of the bearing. Pull (with pliers) on the protruding copper wire while the crankshaft is being turned and the new seal is slowly fed into place.

When an equal amount of seal is extending from each side, cut off the copper wire close to the seal and tamp both ends of eh seal up into the groove. Don't worry about the copper wire left in the groove, it is too soft to cause damage. Replace the seal in the cap in the usual way and replace the oil pan.

To remove the oil pan they just use the factory method:

Remove upper rad supp. & fan guard, exhaust & crossover, idler arm mounting bolts, & tie rods, remove front engine mount bolts, starter, lower clutch housing cover. Support engine with chain & raise as far as possible. Lower pan as far as possible, remove front bearing cap, turn crank until #1 throw is up. Hold crossover pipe & tie rod down & clear oil pan.

As an electrician, I can see how this method would work. I do stuff like this all the time. Patience is required, but it can save a ton of time.

That being said, I would pull the engine & get it over with. Leave the hood on & rebuild or re-gasket & ring it. It is one of the cheapest parts of the whole restoration process & the most satisfying. A/C is not prohibitive. I have done 2 like that recently. Just lash the bastard to the inner fender with some Romex & leave it all in there. Worked for me.

[mike nixon]

There's a tool made called a Sneaky Pete that does this Bruce, Lysle makes it IIRC.

I'd pull the engine and be done.

Mike

[stevep]

We used to call it a Chinese Finger. I agree, pull the motor. It will be MUCH EASIER.