[mike leech]

yes that is the 883 engine. I hope what im doing won't slow it down. The car should be able to be in the mix, but likely can't win without a gift from the other guy.

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by 71 Ventura II

Definitely agree more testimonials are needed. imho In "Theory" the CV-1 heads have the potential to be superior. Unfortunately, theory doesn't always match the "Reality". "Proof is in the Pudding" bring on some tangible data both Pro/Con! JD

Just a random comment about a quote above (I love understanding where things came from)... The phrase is actually:
"The proof of the pudding is in the eating" and emanates from when documents were hidden in pies [fruit pies can be referred to as a pudding in the UK]. Today it means your cooking is only as good as it tastes or, in this case, your combination is only as good as it performs...

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

It's very hard for me to pass this post up. I will not name the people who own these engines, but I will name the combinations I've worked on this past year and the HP results.

All Pontiac Race Ready Tiger Package, 520ci 14 to 1 N/A. 824 HP @ 7200 RPM.
This engine has "good stuff" in it, the car backs up the dyno numbers.

KRE HP 400 CNC HP, 535ci 14+ to 1 N/A 889 HP @ 6800 RPM.
This engine has good stuff, I worked the heads after the car was ran with the CNC heads as delivered. The car is showing HP numbers closer to 825HP.

Hill Performance 350 CNC E-head, 535ci 14 to 1 N/A. 785 HP @6700 RPM.
Bracket style engine, good piston design, car not quite showing the dyno numbers.

Butler Wide Port E-heads, 496ci 14 to 1 N/A. No dyno numbers.
Higher end bracket style engine with good stuff. Showing about 705 HP on the ground.

Hill Performance CV-1 482ci 13 to 1 N/A. Dyno numbers 925 HP @7400 RPM.
Good stuff in this engine, showing 850 HP on the ground.

This is a pretty good comparison.

Take it for what it's worth, this is real data.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

Calvin I assume you are using et to come up with your hp numbers is that correct?

[69Goat1]

Has anyone built a 455 block/factory cast 4.210 crank 6.625 rod cv-1 combo yet and run it on the Dyno na?

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Calvin I assume you are using et to come up with your hp numbers is that correct?

I will use weight to MPH. Even if the formula is a bit off, as long as I use the same one for all, it's good for comparison.

ET can vary so much, example on my 3550 lb slow car.

Dyno results showed 603HP.
10.72 ET to the ground shows 569HP
127 MPH to weight shows 598HP

It's often said, good combinations can "cheat" the ruler.

NHRA D/S record is 10.45 @ 126MPH.

If we assume weight is around 3200 lbs for this combination.
ET shows 552HP
MPH shows 526HP

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by 69Goat1

Has anyone built a 455 block/factory cast 4.210 crank 6.625 rod cv-1 combo yet and run it on the Dyno na?

The only one I know of is a pump gas, 10 to 1 compression, made just over 700 HP on BES dyno. Comes to 1.51 HP to CI.

My 400 CI KRE HP engine made just about the same, 1.50 HP to CI, compression on my motor is 12 to 1.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

[Half-Inch Stud]

Bruce; seems we're in agree then.
I've pondered & (had Ultradyne grind several cams that open Exhaust just after Slug went past 90Deg, well before BDC. Corresponded to 104 104 as-cut, and 100 108Lobe Centers installed. Wow what a chopper at idle. Still think there is performance there.

Ha!: 30 Deg Split @ .050 Overlap should yield Exhaust driven Boost at RPM.

[69Goat1]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

The only one I know of is a pump gas, 10 to 1 compression, made just over 700 HP on BES dyno. Comes to 1.51 HP to CI.

My 400 CI KRE HP engine made just about the same, 1.50 HP to CI, compression on my motor is 12 to 1.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

Is that bnicks engine that BES built? IIRC that was not a stock crank and it was way down on torque and it made it's hp way the hell up there in the 7200+ rpm area which after a bit is beyond factory crank/block rpm capabilities.

In comparison I built a 462 out of a 455 block and factory cast crank and put a set of standard port eheads with$600 worth of port work onthem and made 709 hp at 6100 rpm and 683 torque... In my mind I can either make 705 hp at 7300 or 709 at 6100... Which one would you rather have in a stock block?

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

I will use weight to MPH. Even if the formula is a bit off, as long as I use the same one for all, it's good for comparison.

ET can vary so much, example on my 3550 lb slow car.

Dyno results showed 603HP.
10.72 ET to the ground shows 569HP
127 MPH to weight shows 598HP

It's often said, good combinations can "cheat" the ruler.

NHRA D/S record is 10.45 @ 126MPH.

If we assume weight is around 3200 lbs for this combination.
ET shows 552HP
MPH shows 526HP

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

What mph & weight are you using to get 850hp from the cv1 engine in you example earlier?

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by 69Goat1

Is that bnicks engine that BES built? IIRC that was not a stock crank and it was way down on torque and it made it's hp way the hell up there in the 7200+ rpm area which after a bit is beyond factory crank/block rpm capabilities.

In comparison I built a 462 out of a 455 block and factory cast crank and put a set of standard port eheads with$600 worth of port work onthem and made 709 hp at 6100 rpm and 683 torque... In my mind I can either make 705 hp at 7300 or 709 at 6100... Which one would you rather have in a stock block?

Two different head designs will give different flow curves. FWIW, we spun our stock block 455 in the Catalina to 7200 RPM with a cast crank. If you want to limit your RPM range to below 6100 RPM, a smaller port head will make more power down low. Just keep in mind, anytime you can raise the torque RPM in an engine, the engine will make more horse power.

Just curious, is that the same 455 engine that the mains split? (Under 6100RPM)


Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by slowbird

What mph & weight are you using to get 850hp from the cv1 engine in you example earlier?

3000lbs


Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

3000lbs


Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

So he has ran about 154mph?

[Ron H]

Originally Posted by John Langer

Um, I pushing 30 degrees split duration at 50... I must be doing something wrong or am running a nos cam n/a

10-71 blower cam!

[Ron H]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

The only one I know of is a pump gas, 10 to 1 compression, made just over 700 HP on BES dyno. Comes to 1.51 HP to CI.

My 400 CI KRE HP engine made just about the same, 1.50 HP to CI, compression on my motor is 12 to 1.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

I may be mistaken but, didn't that 455 CV-1 engine run in the high 11's?

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Who said excess exhaust port flow??? Exhaust port flow is actually pretty good on his heads. The CAM has a 16 degree at .050 split! (sorry I didnt mention that before)Valve is opening too much before piston has hit max speed(again apologize) and doesnt help the scavenge on the other side through overlap either. Especially NA. Adjust primary or collector pipe all you want, it aint going to fix CE or VE problems the cam is creating.

Doesnt need that much duration split NA and likely doesnt even need that much with N2O. 978 hp from 505 aint bad at 13.7 compression all things considered. I'm sure the extra high plenum he has on there doesnt help the car go down the track in NA form either. Convertor cant hit its 6000 stall for N2O launch run NA. When run NA its launching quite a bit lower (3k something iirc?)
Gee the NA mph isnt quite showin the NA dyno number. I wonder why?

IMO a cam change makes an easy 22+hp to get over the 1000 point. Add a few more points compression fine tune headers and intake etc I see no issue making a bunch more power NA except time and money. He runs N2O instead.

And Kinsler.... how many years you been refining your whole combo? I think that gets conveniently forgotten by some. Not saying you do, but for anyone to think they are going to bolt on the same parts you have and put them in a 68 bird and go as fast as you, after only a few weeks is absurd. No question your car is a very well scienced package.
JL's car too. Your cars are NOT the norm they are the peak, the goal to meet or beat. You could put either motor in Dragncar's ride or my ride, and its going to be quite sometime before those motors would show the numbers at the track. (Unless of course you donated time money and experience to help)
I've seen plenty of guys with all the right pieces going way slower than they should. Some better realize its more than just the parts or even one part when they start making comparisons.

Bruce, my cam has more than 15 degrees split duration!!

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kinsler

Bruce, my cam has more than 15 degrees split duration!!

Just think you could pick up 20hp by taking some exhaust duration out according to Bruce.

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

I call BULL ****!

Please post the dyno numbers of those engines. The fastest car in the heads up shootout at Norwalk was just under 1000 HP. That car had over 50 HP to the guy that won it and his engine is smaller. Not one engine in that race made over 1000 HP on the dyno.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance / Mondello Tech Center
708-250-7420

his motor does not make more than 50 hp than mine. between my converter not being right for norwalk and his clutchless trans is where the e.t and mph came from. one of the best engine builders in the country said its 4 mph over a turbo 400 with a clutchless trans. Seans engine is badass and I think was build by one of the best in the country wasnt it?

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Just think you could pick up 20hp by taking some exhaust duration out according to Bruce.

Bruce, can you please spec me a cam that will give me 22 more hp please? I will even give you a healthy tip.

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Just think you could pick up 20hp by taking some exhaust duration out according to Bruce.

What is the split on yours? (or a ballpark number if you don't want to say)

My pump gas deal is near the same split as what Jeff has and it isn't a "nitrous" cam by any stretch.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

What is the split on yours? (or a ballpark number if you don't want to say)

My pump gas deal is near the same split as what Jeff has and it isn't a "nitrous" cam by any stretch.

The one thats in it now has 10°