[Hillard]

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

i'm gonna jump in here regarding fact that i started this thread and those who're *****ing about it being a true pontiac.
SHUT THE F#CK UP AND GO FASTER!!
if you don't wanna use aftermarket parts, don't; nobody else cares.
enjoy egging your stock rods and spinning bearings, breaking your main webs, cracking lifter galleys, and trying to breath through our junk stock heads.
be extremely grateful a piece like this is coming and someone cares enough about our favorite engine to build kickass parts like this.
and, just in time for real forged cranks to arrive, too!
paint it blue, paint 'em PINK, so what?
it's in a poncho body, driven by a poncho driver, and has an arrowhead somewhere - good enough for me.
so take your whining to another thread, please.
i intended this thread to be technical and informative, not a buncha girls with their panties in a bunch yakking it up at a tea party.
if you don't like it, read something else!
lastly, yes pontiac did make headers; they just weren't built of tubing but were cast.
in aluminum!
i have said my piece and await my new heads and 2x4 intake.

I'm not sure who exactly your ticked off at. I thought it was a simple discussion, not arguing or whining. I want to know all the technical stuff about these heads as much as you do. Like I posted before, I'm very interested in these heads, but nobody has their hands on them yet so the information is just not there. I admit that I enjoy the look on peoples face when I pop the hood on my mid 10 second 3700 lb., 9" tire, stock block, cast iron head motor (usually a Chevy guy I just beat). The question is will anybody recognize it with these heads or will anyone believe me that it's a Pontiac? Maybe you care, maybe you don't, that's o.k. That's something else I wanted to know, if anyone cares? I know when the time comes I want to build a car for the 8 second range or quicker, I will be looking at these heads very close. If you feel I hijacked your thread or if I offended in some way, I apologize. That was not the purpose of my post.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Currently he told me 90 cc's but want him to work on 105/110 cc for those killer Big cubic inch power adders. Told him I could give up a 'few cfm' in flow to get it too. LOL.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Why get into a pi$$in contest. Run em if ya want. Just like any of the Aftermarket heads offer to bolt on a Pontiac shortblock.

Just another option. Nice thing about these.

ratios from 1.6 to 1.8 over the counter.

Valve covers over the counter

Pushrods over the counter the same as the valve hardware

and you can run ANY type camshaft. No offsets required top or bottom.

Run the Ford Edelbrock intkae and just grind the FERD off it. LOl.

Yea Baby.

[LiL Jack]

So Dude, are you go N/A or putting the sauce to these new heads.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

So Dude, are you go N/A or putting the sauce to these new heads.

I'm going N/A hyraulic roller pump gas like I had in the engine before. Have those results with a 305 cfm E-heads that had just the basic port clean up. Then gonna do a set same deal to see the difference. Then step up to the biggest hyd roller i can do and see. then port them to what ever we can get. Was told that 450 is within reason and maybe 475!!!!! I will find out.

Looking for 850 hp on pump gas with a hydraulic roller and 535 cu.in's. Just the the Cheby boys.



And yes if I'm in the 9's (hopefully mid 9's on pump gas) before VMP I will have a plate on it.................8's?????

Just for YOU.

Then you can buy a dude's prepped 535 as above for your 65 and go back to 93 octane and have fun again.

[BIG POWER]

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

pontiac did make headers; they just weren't built of tubing but were cast.
in aluminum!

you are wrong mike, pontiac made tube headers for select NASCAR super dutys in 1963. pull out ur pontiac history books, start with pete maccarthys books and take a look!!

[Ron H]

The double CFM baseline is being stretched here? 850 hp from a 390 cfm flowing head. So 1050 hp from 475 cfm?

[Steve Barcak]

To me, a Pontiac engine is a Pontiac engine if most of the parts fit other Pontiac blocks.
I try to separate ANY reference to current Pontiac ads or symbols. I try to use the indian head over the arrow head, older style wrting, etc to separate us from the corporate crowd. that is also why I am not a fan of all the valve covers out there that make a Real Pontiac resemble a chevy. I even run stock painted valve covers on my AA/Fueler. I wish to not promote the current 'pontiac' (that turned on us) in any way.
As for adding valve reliefs, I have done it personally at the track on my assembled shortblock. With the piston all the way up, carefully use duct tape around the diameter of the piston and everywhere else. It can be done successfully but I hardly recommend doing it that way unless you really have to. It is far wiser to do it with the motor apart.
I hope the new heads work and benefit and influence others towards the Real Pontiac engine.

Hats off to Mac McKellor and the rest of the Pontiac gang for their great work but, since PMD no longer cares about us, let the aftermarket go wild!
The more parts the better. The only bad idea is a larger bore spacing block. Bad idea because it would require redesigning EVERTHING. Then is isn't a Pontiac anymore.
Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org

"Real Pontiacs only....no corporate nonsense!"

[fastgto]

Originally Posted by SergeF

What ever happend to bulldog heads?

I was wondering too, no comments from anyone ?

[speedshopmike]

i'm all for a repop ra5 head - any new stuff is good.
anything that grows interest and participation in pontiac related stuff is good.
anything about pontiac is good.
but the design's almost 40 years outta date...would it still be "correct" if it had modern chambers, revised ports, etc?
and it was never a production head.

[Region Warrior]

Other then having to mate a ford intake, i like the design.
Look like ford tunnel ports, bbc cantered valves, and RAIV/SD exhaust ports.

[Hillard]

I know someone that's been working on a repop RAV head. I've seen a plastic model on a flow bench. He said it would flow 400 but the velocity was poor. He was thinking about trying to reproduce it anyway, might be good for forced induction. What's your thought on power potential with the CV-1? P-Dude is saying 850hp on pump gas, what about all out race? Will we see a n/a engine crank out 1200, 1300hp?

[GRX]

'bout time we got a canted set up.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Why would anyone want to do this and risk the chance of a metal "chip" getting lodged in the top ring land?

Brian-

I don't want to take a risk, but for those of us that want more power with a head swap these heads are out.

My engine is fresh, 1000 miles and 16 1/4 miles passes. No reason for it to come apart.

I can see the price of used e-heads coming waaaay down.

John

[goquick]

Within a couple months, there will be CV-1 heads in use.
Steve Barcak; I draw the line at the spread bore blocks that are supposed to be any production engine related from gm , mopar, or Ford. Out of the all out custom race engines, Ford styled spread bore blocks are the closes' to the production block you can find under the hoods of production trucks and cars. The supposed Mopar spread bore blocks are redecorated of the supposed chevy big block spread bore block. Does anyone know when the last real production line style engine was used in Pro Stock? It's been quite a while.

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

Originally Posted by goquick

Within a couple months, there will be CV-1 heads in use.
Steve Barcak; I draw the line at the spread bore blocks that are supposed to be any production engine related from gm , mopar, or Ford. Out of the all out custom race engines, Ford styled spread bore blocks are the closes' to the production block you can find under the hoods of production trucks and cars. The supposed Mopar spread bore blocks are redecorated of the supposed chevy big block spread bore block. Does anyone know when the last real production line style engine was used in Pro Stock? It's been quite a while.

I would say.....er.......never?

My buddy was in charge of AMC Motorsports that sponsored Wally Booth's (with Richard Maskin's help) Pro Stocker. That head was sawed into multiple pieces and welded back together. Carl Chakmakian was a dear friend who my wife and I adored, and a true professional made it all happen.

http://www.amxfiles.com/amx/motor_trend1.html

Glidden was doing is own "private castings" in the 70's as Indiana was the home of all the parts plants for the auto industry. They all offered up their services for the big "Show" in Indy.

Surely all the RA-Vs you wouldnt call regular production, but are the only Pontiac cylinder head design to make a showing in Pro Stock with Bert and Rudy. A short deck 370 would have been the key.

I was standing at Indy when Marty Barrett (Pro Stock's Rick Barrett's brother) threw out Grumpy over altering the body and the wheel base.

Nothing is new, nothing is gone. Yester years forgotten technology can always rise to the top for another run. All technology is welcome to most.

Making a bore 4.400 and a new block is as big a leap as widening the block to me.

Lynn

[Skip Fix]

Rockers- my Crower BBC are wider than the 1.5" specs they must be smaller than, what rockers are that narrow? I'll mike a few more tonight.

If you are making the jump to these heads I would hope you use a dedicated piston for the vavle reliefs.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Rockers- my Crower BBC are wider than the 1.5" specs they must be smaller than, what rockers are that narrow? I'll mike a few more tonight.

If you are making the jump to these heads I would hope you use a dedicated piston for the vavle reliefs.

In other words - don't alter your current piston just to make a head change?

John

[goquick]

Lynn,
I had a former Pro Stock Gremlin years ago. The heads were more welding rod than cast iron. I should have figured out a way to buy out my partner in the car and kept it, but niether one of us made enough to do so at the time, so we sold it to a guy in northern Illinois. But the sale of that car lead to our Don Ness built Astre, so it wasn't all bad. BTW, by the time we gotthe Gremlin, it had a p'glide in it and 4.88 gears. It would run low 10's (10.11 best if memory serves me right) all day in the heat of summer.

[Skip Fix]

I would just think to get the most out of the chamber/valve angle just flycutting your old pistons wouldn't be the ideal, especially the 4 eyebrow style. Probably not as cost effective either with the cost of machining, bet well over a $100 just for that on used pistons. More cuts on the pistons, more chance for hot spots for detonation.