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#81
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Weird as it seems the blower motor noise suppressor (cap/choke/flux capacitor lol) came with the FM radio. AM didn't have it. Most of the originals have probably dried up after 50 years.
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Ed 1968 GTO (Thanks Mom) 2006 Silverado 2007 Cadillac SRX 2015 Chevy Express 2024 Cadillac LYRIQ |
#82
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I bought a PM136 fan to try and when I pulled it out of the box the fan was 1/2 to 3/4 shorter than the stock fan on my 1979 Trans AM. I didn't try it so I can't comment on how well it may or may not have worked. I felt it was too short.
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#83
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Quote:
You were right Johnny, it would need modifications to fit a GTO. It bolts to the firewall perfectly but there's not enough clearance to the inner fender without that relief that the stock box has. I really don't want to spend the time it would take to do the modification so I am just going to go with the Astro Van motor like you did. The seller also sent the squirrel cage fan with the box and it's a metal one in extremely good condition. Also the motor cooling hose and it's in really good condition as well. I will sell it all to anyone here for the same price I paid ($35+shipping) that may want to take the time it would take to do the modification. If anyone here is interested, let me know and I will post a couple photos of the parts.
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'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD '83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO 2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO '55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO |
#84
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Hi speed on a ac car has a 30 amp "breaker" to the blower motor in that position. It is usually a fuseable link bolted to your alternator output.
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"The Future Belongs to those who are STILL Willing to get their Hands Dirty" .. my Grandfather |
#85
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I've got my dash apart and am checking the vacuum system. The 5 vacuum lines to the dash switch are numbered in order 1-5, and I'm trying to make sense of which lines are pulling vacuum on which diaphragm. Attached is a markup of the 65 vacuum system with my notes. My statement at the top that the (1) vacuum circuit somehow also feeds vacuum to the (5) circuit is clearly wrong, since the Evaporator (1) (AC) door is controlled by the bar connected to the Diverter (5) (Vent) door. I know the Defrost (4) door is controlled by the diaphragm by the drivers feet (mine is dead, confirmed with vac pump). So what does vacuum line (1) actually pull on? 1 and 2 both go to the diaphragm in the engine compartment. If I pull vac on 1, that works fine (but I don't see anything move). If I pull vac on 2, I don't get vac (like a dead diaphragm). BUT, if I block 1 (at the switch) and then pull vac on 2, I see the diaphragm pull in the engine compartment, and I'm assuming that is moving the inside/outside air door. So when vacuum is applied to vacuum connectors on the switch: 1: what does vacuum pull on? This and 2 both go to the engine compartment diaphragm. I originally thought this had to be the AC evaporator (deflector) door 2: inside/outside door (when hose/connector to port 1 is sealed off at switch) 3: engine vacuum feed (with one-way check valve) 4: Defrost door 5: Vent (diverter) door that also moves Evaporator (deflector) door Thanks for any help/discussion! My AC is working well, blowing cold when switched on, etc so it appears at this point that all diaphragms are working except the Defrost door, but I can't see how to remove/replace that without removing the entire heater plenum? Good thing I live in Florida! Thanks. |
#86
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67 AC systems are similar. If I understand your request correctly, you need clarification on which lines have vacuum per function. See the table to the left on the 1st photo.
With regards to the dual port vacuum motor, this may help wrt a perceived bleeding from another user's question: "Vent or Out" applies vacuum to both Vacuum Motor nipples, pulling about 7/8" against the spring and opening the Air Inlet Door for 100% outside air. "Inside" applies vacuum only to the outside nipple. It only moves the Air Inlet Door about 1/8" to meet the 80% recirculated/ 20% outside air. If this malfunctions, you'll get 100% recirculated air. If your new vacuum motor is bleeding from the outside nipple and cannot hold it's position at 1/8", it may be defective. I have two original vacuum motors and bench tested them to the conditions above and did not see any bleeding. I've attached pictures of the measured positions. |
#87
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More photos of the second vacuum motor behavior. Keep in mind that the plenum spring pulls the vacuum motor plunger out a little for the no vac condition.
Last edited by gto4ben; 10-01-2022 at 06:49 PM. |
#88
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Below are the vacuum circuits for a '66-67, which is essentially the same as your '65 as to the vacuum lines. The diaphragm in the engine compartment either goes full travel for "outside" air or partial travel for "inside" air. Note that "inside" still has some outside air (I guess because everybody smoked back then?). "Off" is no outside airflow.
Notice how each diagram also shows how the vacuum switch routes the vacuum. Also notice that "outside" has vacuum to both ports. "Inside" has vacuum to only the offset port. |
#89
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Wow you guys, those diagrams and the explanations are perfect. I was figuring there was a trick in the "5-port" switch that combined vacuum signals in various settings, but couldn't figure it out just from trying to pull test vacuums on various ports.
The colored diagram with the table is the most helpful, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the logic there, which assumes an X means vacuum applied to that circuit in the 5-port switch (3 always "on" since its engine vacuum): OFF: Just engine vacuum to the switch De-Ice: Defroster door (4) and 100% outside air (1 + 2) through heater core based on temp door position, blowing to windshield Heat: 100% outside air (1 + 2) through heater core based on temp door position, blowing to feet Vent or Out: Diverter + Deflector door combo (5) and 100% outside air (1 + 2) through Evaporator/Heater core based on temp door position, blowing to Vent system Inside: Diverter + Deflector door combo (5) and 20% outside air (2 only) through Evaporator/Heater core based on temp door position, but this includes De-Ice (4)? I didn't realize it was going to push air to the dash when in Inside air (recirc) mode; How does air get to the Defroster door when the Diverter door is already full open/blocking the path to the Heater floor vents and the Defroster channel? Some still comes through the Heater core and can get there? Based on this, I can assume I know why I hear a hissing sound when I push my control all the way to Inside: My 1+2 diaphragm is working fine, my 5 diaphragm is working fine, but my 4 (Defrost) diaphragm is dead, so it's causing a vacuum leak there (I hadn't tried running Defrost and hearing it hiss since I'm in Florida, was only checking Vent, Outside AC and Inside AC most of the time!). I was concerned that what I was hearing what a problem with the engine compartment diaphragm and that I may not be getting proper inside/outside air mixing functions, but I was able to pull vacuum on 2 and see the 1+2 diaphragm bar move from inside the dash (with the 1 port plugged). SO: from what I can see I can't remove/replace the Defrost diaphragm without pulling the entire heater plenum? |
#90
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If you're dextrous, you may be able to access the defroster vacuum motor nuts from below after removing the deflector. There is a long spring holding the defrost door in its default position that will give you difficulty. I struggled with this and it was off the car.
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#91
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Quote:
I currently have a small 1/4" socket on the head of the screw that connects the diaphragm bar to the defroster door, but before I go any further I'm going to look online to see if I can even buy a replacement Delco-Remy diaphragm (everything is on the car, console still in but driver's seat and steering wheel out since I'm doing all the dash work). Thanks! |
#92
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Quote:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202560973830 |
#93
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A workaround for now is to plug the vacuum hose at the defog actuator. Especially since you live in FL and say you don't need it (much).
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#94
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Thanks! |
#95
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Just wanted to mention again that I do have a '69 to '72 Grand Prix evaporator housing that I want to sell. If I don't get any takers, I'll try ebay.
I cleaned it up today and took some photos. It's in really good condition and comes with the fan squirrel cage and motor vent hose. Both of those are in fantastic condition as well. I did lightly blast the squirrel cage and sprayed some aluminum paint on it.
__________________
'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD '83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO 2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO '55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO |
The Following User Says Thank You to roger1 For This Useful Post: | ||
#96
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Adding onto an old thread here in the hopes that what I did may be of help for others who come across this.
When I got my car earlier this year ('69 GTO w/ AC) there was almost no air coming out of the vents at all even on the high fan setting. 1- One thing I did was seal up the lower AC ducting section that bolts up underneath the dashboard by using plastic weld cement in the insides of the unit. this sealed up all the seams and prevents leaks. I also sealed up all the ducting underneath the dashboard using HVAC tape. including where it meets the firewall. I found this tape to be very thin/ easy to work with and wrap around the ducting connection points to seal up everything. It's all great until I need to take things apart underneath the dash. Pro tip- do this after you think you're finished taking things apart underneath the dash 2- After that and still not being satisfied with the volume of air being moved I started looking into seeing if others had replaced the blower motor with something else more powerful and came across this thread. In the interest of wanting to try all possible options I too ordered the replacement motor recommended here (VDO/Continental PM136) bought it from Amazon, and when received I removed the original blower motor from my car. I then clamped each motor to my vice (one at a time) and tested them with an extra car battery and jumper cables. This is where the big surprise came in- the original motor was noticeably more powerful than the new one. the start up was, well, almost violent for lack of a better term and blew air all over the place. the new motor was like a calm morning slowly gaining speed and moved much less air by comparison. So back that went and the original motor went back in the car. Now when I removed the blower motor from my car I noticed the cooling tube was missing- meaning that air was just blowing out the hole in the heater core box that should have been feeding air back to my blower motor for cooling. Also, while a previous owner added a ground wire they didn't bother to clean the paint off for bare metal contact. I fixed both of these things when reinstalling. I also then added a bead of RTV silicone around the fan mounting flange to ensure no leaking air when reassembled and then tested the fan motor once reassembled to feel for leaking air. I found a bunch of leaking air up inside the inner fender area where the heater box mounted to the firewall. I then added more RTV silicone to that to seal it up, then put the rest of the car back together and tested it the next day. Significant improvement! Now all the air that the fan is moving is coming out the vents and not bleeding away into the inner fender. 3- Lastly, this weekend I've further upgraded the car with a higher amp alternator (10si 95 amp internally regulated alternator) and this too seems to help with the fan having more voltage to work with. The big takeaways here are to seal up the ducting both in front of the firewall and underneath the dash to make sure any/ all air isn't bleeding away from leaks. hope this helps
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Long live the Muscle Car Instagram @tuske427 1967 Firebird #BVbird 1967 Firebird 400 4 speed project 1969 Verdoro green GTO (daily) |
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#97
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Well worth the time and effort! |
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