[mgarblik]

Interesting thread and you have to love looking at the pictures. It's Pontiac race car engine jewelry. I love building engines of this caliber, but there are very few people I know willing and able to pony up the investment to make this kind of power. And you HAVE to have parts of this caliber if you want it to live. Looks like DLC coating on the wrist pins?. The micro-polish on the crank is beautiful. I understand the rod choice to extract the absolute maximum HP vs aluminum. Can't wait to hear about the pistons and rings. Keep the info coming!

[mike leech]

Yes DLC coating on the pins. So we're on the subject of connecting rods let me save some poor bastard the unfortunate experience of assembling an engine putting on an oil pan....only to find the engine will not turn over after the cam is installed due to 4 connecting rods hitting Cam lobes. With the LS firing order you're going to have to clearance connecting rods three, four, seven, and eight. The stuff is that close. It's best to use a zip tie as they are about .050 thick. If it fits your good.

[mike leech]

As far as Pistons go. This is another area where I chuckle when I talk to people. Everyone wants to make big power, but they want to have cheap parts that are on a shelf. 1/16 inch ring packs and 3/16 oil rings are just plain gross.

Expect to pay twice as much at least for pistons as you think you are going too. You're not going to use regular parts. You're going to have to try a lot harder than that.

As far as rings go with cool guy stuff will cost you twice as much as you think Pistons are going to cost. Like $1300 as a starting point for the cool guy stuff. But even come in their own individually wrapped packages and in plastic bags inside of those packages.

I am on purpose not supplying a photograph of the top of the piston. We have worked out a dome design specific for my heads. It wouldn't do any one else any good anyway. And the point of this thread To be a little bit detailed but more general. Not just give away a recipe.

My wrist pins weigh about 190 g. They are heavy, but they also need to be. It's part of the deal. And you can get a lot cooler Pistons than what I'm currently running. But there's a budget for everything. Maybe someday I will get billet pistons. For now forged Will do.

[Tom Vaught]

Thanks again Mike.

Tom V.

[mike leech]

QAs camshafts go. You're not going to buy some used cam for $300 that's going to work just as good. You're also not going to get it done with a standard cam journal or standard lifters. It's time to put your big boy pants on. 55 mm roller cams and 904 lifters minimum. Absolute minimum. Expect to pay more to have your lifters rebuilt every season then you think they should cost new. It's just the way it is $1400 or more for Jessel the lifters. And camshaft upwards of $1000. Yes we are running an LS firing order. There's a lot more to camshaft technology than just numbers at .050 or .200. Acceleration rates play a big part in part Life.

And another thing if you want an engine like us to stay running and not beat the lifters out of it you better get over spring pressure. 400 on the seat and over 1100 open psi. Just the way it is. No spring pressure does not break parts. Lack of spring pressure and parts bouncing around uncontrolled breaks parts.

Again we're not giving away our current recipe. But for sure Scottys got a handle on the valvetrain.
We are currently running a new camshaft in this combination. I'm not going to disclose numbers or events other than after deflection I will likely only be lifting the valve .900. We are .940 gross before lash and deflection. So you don't need to be over 1 inch left to make power.

[mike leech]

Sorry if it looks like a ebonics. I'm using talk to text. And it likes to change sentences every once in a while. Anyway Scott gave me a cam card to post.

[mike leech]

On the oil pan.... I made/ designed one and made it. You can buy them for around a $1000.

Some pics.

[mike leech]

One at a time

[mike leech]

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[mike leech]

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[RA462]

Keep up the great work Mike. Dig the thread. Wish I lived closer to see it more myself. Keep it coming.

[RAMAIR RICK]

Mike, thanks greatly for sharing some of the investment realities of the high quality components that are needed in order to play in the very competitive heads up racing that you do. In addition, the high quality specialized machine work, and very high quality components, along with the correct combination of all the parts, makes for a collective whole, that is flat out one bad %*# PONCHO.

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by mike leech

As far as Pistons go. This is another area where I chuckle when I talk to people. Everyone wants to make big power, but they want to have cheap parts that are on a shelf. 1/16 inch ring packs and 3/16 oil rings are just plain gross.

Expect to pay twice as much at least for pistons as you think you are going too. You're not going to use regular parts. You're going to have to try a lot harder than that.

As far as rings go with cool guy stuff will cost you twice as much as you think Pistons are going to cost. Like $1300 as a starting point for the cool guy stuff. But even come in their own individually wrapped packages and in plastic bags inside of those packages.

I am on purpose not supplying a photograph of the top of the piston. We have worked out a dome design specific for my heads. It wouldn't do any one else any good anyway. And the point of this thread To be a little bit detailed but more general. Not just give away a recipe.

My wrist pins weigh about 190 g. They are heavy, but they also need to be. It's part of the deal. And you can get a lot cooler Pistons than what I'm currently running. But there's a budget for everything. Maybe someday I will get billet pistons. For now forged Will do.

A little confused here -- I have had to run flat top for years and still do some wiggle to stay in the mid 15:1 range --- the current "project" has a dish in it for that 15.2 is the chamber still that big to require a dome ???

[mgarblik]

Oil pan looks like a big project. As far as pistons and rings. Looks like a .990 pin? Are you using aluminum buttons to support the oil ring or a steel support? Hard to tell from the pictures, but looks like no gas porting of any type. We don't do that either. We do use a .017 dykes top ring for some additional help with our high cylinder pressure. Looks like the top ring is about .170-.200" down from the piston head? You are right, the pistons don't look particularly exotic from the underside. Look to have good support in the skirt area. I have built 1 engine with billet pistons so far. Very expensive as you mentioned, Don't have any real feedback as to whether they were worth the cost yet. It was a late model Hemi build. Appreciate the posts!

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by cgeise

A little confused here -- I have had to run flat top for years and still do some wiggle to stay in the mid 15:1 range --- the current "project" has a dish in it for that 15.2 is the chamber still that big to require a dome ???

It is very small dome. And large valve releifs

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Oil pan looks like a big project. As far as pistons and rings. Looks like a .990 pin? Are you using aluminum buttons to support the oil ring or a steel support? Hard to tell from the pictures, but looks like no gas porting of any type. We don't do that either. We do use a .017 dykes top ring for some additional help with our high cylinder pressure. Looks like the top ring is about .170-.200" down from the piston head? You are right, the pistons don't look particularly exotic from the underside. Look to have good support in the skirt area. I have built 1 engine with billet pistons so far. Very expensive as you mentioned, Don't have any real feedback as to whether they were worth the cost yet. It was a late model Hemi build. Appreciate the posts!

I built the pan in about 30ish hrs over 4-5 days.
The ring is there due to the depth of the valve releif. Where the ring land comes close to the valve pocket. We would like it higher. But....

.927 pin.

[cgeise]

cool