[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by elefantrider

Steve, maybe you can say how you've built your engines to allow for 87 octane with iron heads.

It's quite easy. All of my Pontiacs are built that way too minus my latest, 8.5:1 and SPC-6 or 7 cam. I'm sure Steve has his own recipes too. The best part is the low compression parts for 400s & 455s tend to be cheap ;-)

I still want to get another full size '67 wagon and use it for a truck replacement. I loved mine, even with a 350 2bbl on it. Never had trouble hauling anything or keeping up with freeway traffic at 75MPH.

[Steve Barcak]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

It's quite easy. All of my Pontiacs are built that way too minus my latest, 8.5:1 and SPC-6 or 7 cam. I'm sure Steve has his own recipes too. The best part is the low compression parts for 400s & 455s tend to be cheap ;-)

I still want to get another full size '67 wagon and use it for a truck replacement. I loved mine, even with a 350 2bbl on it. Never had trouble hauling anything or keeping up with freeway traffic at 75MPH.

I hope you get to buy another '67 Wagon! I have 2 of them stashed away. One of them, still not decided exaclty which one, will be a keeper for my museum and the other needs a home. The '67 wagons have that aggresive front end and nice tail lights. Another of my favorite years of full size wagons.

Yes, these engines can be built with relatively cheap parts- i use 6X heads but, there are many other castings that would work fine. I only burn regular gas, never premium. The '66 GTO currently uses this combo for great reliability and very decent mileage and it tows well too.
455, forged pistons, baffled pan, windage tray, 6X heads cleaned up, puny 068 cam, small rockers, '72 intake, HEI, 3 tube headers, 700 trans, 2.93 rear gear. Currenly not using the lock up so, no electronics to the trans.
The engine/head/cam combo seems to really like the 2.93 gear. It lives in the 1,200-1,800 rmp range and rarely ever sees rpms over 2,500. It has pleny of torque/pulling power at low rpms.
I plan to experiment with a few mielage intakes- the Offy dual port and the Edel sp2p sometime.
GTO gets 11-33 towing more than its own weight and 16-18 when not towing.
I just towed a '61 Catalina 250 miles through the mountains to my new place with the 66 the other day. Towing and daily useage is a constant with this car. It has to be reliable as I do not have another car together at this time. The GTO added close to 5,000 miles in the last month. Most of it towing. It is not my official tow car but, has to fill in until others are ready.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by Steve Barcak

I hope you get to buy another '67 Wagon! I have 2 of them stashed away. One of them, still not decided exaclty which one, will be a keeper for my museum and the other needs a home. The '67 wagons have that aggresive front end and nice tail lights. Another of my favorite years of full size wagons.

Yeah, '67 is hands down my favorite year of full sizers. I like the '71-76 full size wagons due to the disc brakes and other standard equipment, but there's something about the front end of the '67 that screams different and aggressive. I'm currently using a 1985 GMC 6.2D as my tow\work truck with 235k miles on it and it's only a matter of time before the webbed mains catch up to it and make it die. Pontiacs fortunately don't suffer from such a fate.

Originally Posted by Steve Barcak

The engine/head/cam combo seems to really like the 2.93 gear. It lives in the 1,200-1,800 rmp range and rarely ever sees rpms over 2,500.

Yup. I've found the 2.78 to really be ideal for my applications. With an OD I'm sure it would do better at 70-75MPH. My '72 has a 2.78 and it really likes that rear end combo regardless of which engine I've got in it (had 2x 350s and 1x 455 both). Granted I'm also using low octane builds, which helps. I've got a 2.56 and 2.41 in other cars and they aren't bad either, just not great for racing. The 2.78-2.93-3.08 rears really seem to be a great compromise for a transportation\towing Pontiac. I've had +3.23s and the RPM was just too much for the highway and long distances (for me).

[elefantrider]

Does having posi make a difference when towing with a full size?

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by Mister Pontiac

X2!

X3! On loving these kind of threads.

[goatwgn]

I have the interior too nice now, but at one time, I used my '66 Tempest Custom wagon to haul 3 engines at the same time. Had a peice of plywood in the back, had a 283 Chevy, a 301 Pontiac, and a 318 Chrysler back there at the same time. I was burning the midnight oil at the time rebuilding engines for people, and I took all three off these (apart) with the cranks and heads in boxes- to a machine shop. Used the wagon to pick up a whole exhaust for the '80 Firebird the 301 came out of. That was when you could go to an auto parts store, and buy the exhaust headpipes, and tailpipes-they were hanging in the back room of the store- and take them home or to a shop and bolt them on the car. I presently have a 5x8 utility trailer I can haul stuff with my Pontiac, (Or my Oldsmobile) if I need a "truck". Helped someone move a while back with my Tempest. I loaded the car full of the "fragile items" like the stereo, TV, boxes of China, and all the collection of "model cars" Put the China hutch, a couple of beds, and an entertainment center on the trailer, and hauled it all at the same time to his new location. The 455 pulls an extra load like it doesnt even exist. Someday, I may build a specific "tow/haul" vehicle based on a Pontiac fullsized wagon like you guys are doing, and use a similar drivetrain to what I have in my intermediate now. (455/th400/GV OD) Would likely use a milder cam than the 041 I have in mine presently. Keep the stories coming.

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by elefantrider

Does having posi make a difference when towing with a full size?

I think it may help if you were towing a boat trailer in and out of a dock with it, otherwise, I wouldnt believe it to be absolutely necessary.

[Steve Barcak]

Originally Posted by elefantrider

Does having posi make a difference when towing with a full size?

It would depend on where you tow and what kind of weather you tow. There is no negative to having a posi other than initial cost. If you are in the rain, snow, ice, mud, dirt, gravel etc, it is a real blessing. Currently my GTO has a one legger. I had a posi but, it went bad so, a one legger was put in tempararily. Since then, have bought another posi but, have yet to install. I have gotten stuck a few times because of the one legger.

[elefantrider]

That is good news as i just found out my high option wagon has a one legger and it will be a while before I find a posi for sale.

Next project is to repair the factory auto level system and/or install air lift bags. Too many years of weak rear springs has damaged the gas tank seam and spare wheelwell. Can't have that!

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by elefantrider

Next project is to repair the factory auto level system and/or install air lift bags. Too many years of weak rear springs has damaged the gas tank seam and spare wheelwell.

My '67 had that problem too since it was used to haul drywall for who knows how long. Fortunately it had a massive trailer hitch that had worn down almost 3/8" from the high point to save the trunk floor. It still damaged the gas tank though since the adjustment rod and nut was almost completely backed out. It also had failed Hi-Jackers in it too ;-)

[Mister Pontiac]

And here's another reason why you need a vintage Pontiac with a hitch for towing...

Now I ask you. Is there a better way to tow??

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by Mister Pontiac

And here's another reason why you need a vintage Pontiac with a hitch for towing...

Now I ask you. Is there a better way to tow??

X2! Nice looking together.

[elefantrider]

Originally Posted by Mister Pontiac

Now I ask you. Is there a better way to tow??

IMO, the only better way is with a bigger pontiac!

Great shots.

I'd love to get an old '60s raysoncraft one of these days.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Man I love these types of threads.

Tom Vaught

Indeed; years ago people used full size cars (usually wagons) for big campers, not pickups like today.

[elefantrider]

Just curious, what were most v8 A-body and full size cars officially rated to tow and how do they come up with those ratings? Is it mostly based on HP?

A jetboat and trailer must weigh 4500lbs?
A full size trailered B-body with trailer, 6500lbs?

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by Mister Pontiac

And here's another reason why you need a vintage Pontiac with a hitch for towing...

Now I ask you. Is there a better way to tow??

Low tide at Shilshole Marina (salt, steep, slippery) plucking out a 20' I/O? You'll need 4 fatties crouching over the rear axle to have a chance...

I'll simply flick my 2004 TrailBlazer into 4WD and go. Does nice in AWD and crappy weather too.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Mister Pontiac

And here's another reason why you need a vintage Pontiac with a hitch for towing...

Now I ask you. Is there a better way to tow??

That is sweet! Just need to put a decent motor in the boat now! Heh-heh! Whew!

If I had my choice, I would build classics for all my needs. Only few times you wouldn't want to use one for daily/special needs IMO.

.

[Steve Barcak]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

That is sweet! Just need to put a decent motor in the boat now! Heh-heh! Whew!

If I had my choice, I would build classics for all my needs. Only few times you wouldn't want to use one for daily/special needs IMO.

.

I understand your jest but, do not think you know what that engine is. do you?

[zeebo]

so steve, i guess i didnt realize you are building a pontiac museum? what are you doing with all those cars? you sound like you lead the perfect life! lol

[Steve Barcak]

Originally Posted by zeebo

so steve, i guess i didnt realize you are building a pontiac museum? what are you doing with all those cars? you sound like you lead the perfect life! lol

Yes, it is the largest and most ambitious project of my life and has been in planning and working on for some time. If interested, there is a museum page on my site, here is a direct link to it. There is basic info. http://www.pontiacheaven.org/museum_page.html
The museum will also house the race/fab shop and more.

This is the primary reason why I have put aside my racing efforts the last few years. Have also become extremely frugal in my living, some of hard to comprehend, etc to get this paid off. It is harder now that I do not have a regular job anymore and retirement is still over 10 years away. Any money made from my car shows, races, parts sales, etc goes to the museum effort or to add to the collection in some way. I need to get this land paid off and put up a building to house many of these cars. After that, will resume drag racing and , eventually Bonneville efforts.