[67droptop]

Be easy on me this is my first post! Brain I will agree with you when calling the P-Dude an OLE CODLGER and that he KNOWS what he is talking about. I have known the Dude since the late 70's and from 82-88 I hung around his shop alot. I had a 67 Tempest with a Ram Air 400 which Dude selected and sold me the parts to build. I street raced this car maybe 20 times and only lost twice. Not bad with a powergluide and 3.08 open rear. One lost was to a Dude built 351 Windsor!!!!!!!! I said all that to say this, I had first hand experience in the early days of Dude experimenting with any and everthing availiable just like he is today. Secondly he has ALWAYS passed on his results good or bad without holding or wanting anything in return. Not kissing up to the Dude but after reading some of the threads I can't understand how some people twist the truth. Lack of experience I guess!!!!!!

[Brandn74]

I didn't know asking a question would cause this kinda backlash.Seems some have made it work others like to play it safe so let's just agree to disagree and be friends.

[TIN TIGR]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo..i'm wound up now..dude talked smack about top gun..and why didnt he return my e-mails from the pz board..everyone there snubbed me..

living at 1000 plus hp is not hard..just attention to details..how does palbykin do it at 1400 hp?..quit whining and learn your craft..

a 40 year old 350 4 bolt block can make 1056 hp and live thru 2 rebuilds..we run a dart block now, for more nitrous..i am sure a well prepped 400 style stroker can do it..most guys just do not know how..the wilson manifold guy makes around 900 hp and lives, n/a..

its the tune-up that kills stuff..smooth applications of power just turn the crank, they dont hammer it..make the pistons push equally, and the crank wont twist or flex much..and then the block wont break..

but let one cylinder make 100hp, and the next only make 50 hp, and it will break for sure, even at poo-butt levels..this is fact, truth and go to hell if ya dont believe..

what about my pistons p-dude?..why didnt you answer my message?..i feel bad..

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by TIN TIGR

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo..i'm wound up now..dude talked smack about top gun..and why didnt he return my e-mails from the pz board..everyone there snubbed me.

what about my pistons p-dude?..why didnt you answer my message?..i feel bad..

Didn't see it. PM me here. Sorry dude.

Yep. Top Gunn. Remember that WILD looking Star Warzzzzz nitrous set up. Was a totally different theory and set up back then.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Brandn74

I didn't know asking a question would cause this kinda backlash.Seems some have made it work others like to play it safe so let's just agree to disagree and be friends.

Keep in mind when Keefer did this, and later when I did it, there were no IA-2 or MR-1 blocks. They hadn't hit the market yet. When I did mine, the IA-1 was out there, but Dick Duclow wasn't casting any more, and to find one for sale was like looking for a needle in a haystack, and when they did come available, sellers typically were asking more than what Dick sold them for in the first place. There were no forged cranks, unless you could find a '990 crank or perhaps a rare R.A. V unit, with the latter being quite expensive. We weren't "playing dangerously" on purpose, we had little choice. Now that we have aftermarket blocks available and affordable forged cranks, there is no point in spending $2000+ on a factory block in an effort to make it live, when in the end its weakness will still be up the middle between the crank and cam bores. No need to risk a cast crank when a good forging can be had for $650 or less.

[Polar-Pontiac]

The Dude may be old, but with age comes great experience. I've been on this board since 2001, I believe, and if I was to ever consider running lots of nitrous, he would be the guy to go to period.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by Polar-Pontiac

The Dude may be old, but with age comes great experience. I've been on this board since 2001, I believe, and if I was to ever consider running lots of nitrous, he would be the guy to go to period.

By all means,go right ahead,I got no problem with that.

Me,I can just drive the 5 minutes to JD's shop (punisher#1) and ask him to answer any specific questions I might have...

Or I can call any of the dozens of other folks I know with the same sorta info.

But I dont need to do that,I already have a pretty damn good idea of what can be done,and what should be done.

Sure a fella can spray a fair amount of HP on a stock block,hell he can even spray a basic two bolt main OE block with a cast crank,stock rods,and basic forged pistons if he wanted to,and we all know it will work ok for a while,but sooner or later the results of that logic will come due.

This thread was'nt supposed to be a popularity contest,it was about what folks thought would be the best foundation to build upon,I just gave my opinion.

If the only opinion that matters on the subject is Dude's,,,then why the hell is anybody else even posting on this thread???

[Polar-Pontiac]

It's not a matter of popularity, it's who has did what with what. What are your accomplishments with nitrous? Maybe you have many accomplishments that we're not aware of, but in the Pontiac world, Ken "The Dude" Keefer is the go to guy for nitrous. There are others that have been successful, BUT this is about a stock pontiac block and the pounding it has received and the Dude has pounded a stock block with nitrous.Have you?

[Brandn74]

Come on now this thread wasn't meant for this.

[Polar-Pontiac]

Originally Posted by Brandn74

Come on now this thread wasn't meant for this.

This is just friendly banter. None of my posts are meant to be offensive. Just good bench racing. Screaming Chief is also a very helpful member of this board, so don't get it twisted.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by Polar-Pontiac

It's not a matter of popularity, it's who has did what with what. What are your accomplishments with nitrous? Maybe you have many accomplishments that we're not aware of, but in the Pontiac world, Ken "The Dude" Keefer is the go to guy for nitrous. There are others that have been successful, BUT this is about a stock pontiac block and the pounding it has received and the Dude has pounded a stock block with nitrous.Have you?

Your using the same argumentative logic as he is.

It does'nt matter what I have or have'nt personally done,it still does'nt change my opinion,not even the slightest little bit.

And no matter what anybody else here says,I'm fully entitled to have an opinion of my own.

And nobody gets to change that just because they disagree either.

I never once said that a stock block spraying big hp could'nt be done.

I just said it's not the best idea.

Throw ya'lls money where-ever you want,it's no sweat off my back.

This thread aint about me,or the Dude,it's about what block choice would make the most sense for this guys stated goal,that is an engine regularly making upwards of 950+ hp.

The rest of this arguing is just obfuscating the current reality of that sitaution,arguing for the sake of arguing,,,you know,,,a good 'ole fashioned pissing match...

Ya'll wanna lynch me speaking my mind,but that $#!t aint gonna happen,not today,not ever.

I say if ya'll know so damn much,then by all means tell this guy about the costs of such choices,tell him exactly what each block choice is gonna cost him to get this deal up and running,and be sure to give him the real world prices for this sorta thing,then let him decide what choice works for him,be it short term,or long term.

Most of us have already done that sorta homework,,,and we already know the answers...

If nobody here is prepared to do that,this thread is likely wasting everybodies time with this lame ass arguing back and forth over who knows what,and who's right,and who's wrong,who's BTDT,that dreck does this guy absolutely no good in helping him make an informed decision about what he should be considering for this build.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way,but 99% of folks here dont wanna tangle with guys like PDude,myself I really dont care what anybody on a forum thinks about me,I also dont have to worry about losing customers either,as I dont have any,I'm not running a business,I wont lose face because I could care less what anybody else thinks they may or may not know about me or my knowledge,as it's often largely irrelevant to the topic(s) being discussed,mush like it is here.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by Polar-Pontiac

This is just friendly banter. None of my posts are meant to be offensive. Just good bench racing. Screaming Chief is also a very helpful member of this board, so don't get it twisted.

I'm cool here,I have'nt been even the slightest bit upset by the drama,I'm just trying to stand up for everybodies right to express their own opinions on any given subject,and by the same token,not have to fear getting their opinions stomped into the ground by somebody just because they somehow feel entitled to do such.

I respect what Dude was saying,we all know that it could be done.

I just wish he would ease up a bit himself.

[Polar-Pontiac]

Agreed

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

By all means,go right ahead,I got no problem with that.

Me,I can just drive the 5 minutes to JD's shop (punisher#1) and ask him to answer any specific questions I might have...

Or I can call any of the dozens of other folks I know with the same sorta info.

But I dont need to do that,I already have a pretty damn good idea of what can be done,and what should be done.

Sure a fella can spray a fair amount of HP on a stock block,hell he can even spray a basic two bolt main OE block with a cast crank,stock rods,and basic forged pistons if he wanted to,and we all know it will work ok for a while,but sooner or later the results of that logic will come due.

This thread was'nt supposed to be a popularity contest,it was about what folks thought would be the best foundation to build upon,I just gave my opinion.

If the only opinion that matters on the subject is Dude's,,,then why the hell is anybody else even posting on this thread???

Bla, bla, bla. Ease up???????????
People posted that this and that couldn't be done with a stock block based on NO personal experiences. Or my buddies brothers uncle said.................. I post that it could and what I did to show it. Then you get on here with another long winded ego trip and proceed to slam me.
There are more racers then me out there that have done it. they just don't post and that is why. Because you get keyboard racers spoutin info on subjects they have no experience in.

Same deal with all this deck height stuff (and the constant.. you have to have zero deck bla, bla, bla.) and i mentioned that with certain hp level power adders I run my pistons down in the hole and people boo ha'd that. But it works.... from experience and been doing it since the 90's. You just have to Think outside the box. instead of just doing the same old crap that has been done for the past 50 years with Pontiac. Always have and always will.

I was twisting Pontiac engines in the upper 7000 rpm range 10 years ago. I was throwing 500 plus hp to stock blocks 10 years ago. Just because I don't have a 2100 lb tube chassis car and can put down a big number because of the car, doesn't mean that you can't look past that to the hp per ET per lb deal. Has nothing to do with patting myself on the back. The wife can do that, bwahahahahahahaa. I put it out there and let other take it from there.

You notice that no really top end racers really post on the net. Ya wanna know why? I talk to them. It's because of this kinda bullsh*t and keyboard racers taking shots at info they post.

Anyway. I'm done and moving on.

Brandn74. Send the e-mail to pdsales@bellsouth.net and will work up a cam for ya and get a tune up going.

Don't worry about certain phuckstiks on here. They seem to get their rocks off interjecting slam tactics to control the media. Like i stated, I didn't start this verbal barage, but i damn well won't take it. Might be gettin old but never ran away from a face to face or a knock down drag out. I'm a big boy and can take care of myself.

[TIN TIGR]

only those that push the edge of reality really learn..you can be safe, and run well..look at jim hands philosophy..it just flat out works..but to truly find the edge, you must push for it..

if another racer can make an engine live at 1200 hp, i have faith enough in my abilities to match him/her..

the question of does the "match racer" need 1000 hp or more has been answered..he doesnt need that much to beat his 6.50 car buddy..he needs chassis setup and a good 7531 box to ride the dots for 660 ft..thats how the big dogs win today..

with decent heads, we could run a flat hyd cam and a plate kit and get where ya want to go..an aftermarket block, forged crank, and the rest of a killer bottom end are not needed..dont you cats ever feel ashamed you cant build like gaby at wilson manifolds,or this tony bes guy?..are they that much smarter than you?..if you believe that, give up racing..

everyone has their own way..the path we take thru life belongs to us alone..push every limit, and leave some knowledge for your future pals..thats love for those that follow after you..

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

People posted that this and that couldn't be done with a stock block

Sigh...

Who said that it could'nt be done???

Point out one person who said that in this thread.

What post was that stated in,please be specific.

Certainly was'nt in any of my posts.

For about the umpteenth time,we all damn well know it can be done.

The debate was'nt necessarily about what can or cant be done,it was more about what should or should not be done in this day and age,not what had to be done years ago simply because no other options existed.

Dude,I seem to recall a few threads on "another" pontiac forum where you created a huge stink by slamming another pontiac builder arguing the exact opposite logic your arguing here,doggin him for using a stock block in a high HP build when he easily could have suggested to the customer that he spend a little more and get the added reliability of the aftermarket block.

IIRC that thread got locked,and then sanitized of much of the drama,then it kinda spread to another thread about the logic of using cast cranks vs. forged cranks,more drama ensued,yadda,yadda,yadda.

Hell,there are probably even a few threads here in this forums archives where you argued just as passionately for the other side of this debate,and strongly suggested the use of an aftermarket block for this sorta build instead of a reworked OE block.

So while some folks might call you a hypocrite or such for those sorta 180° about-face manuvers,others will just chalk it up to your usual posting M/O,whatever the reason may be at that time,it's still all fine by me,I dont judge others for that sorta thing,hell I play the devils advocate all the time myself,and it seems to me that's all you been doing here.

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Don't worry about certain phuckstiks on here. They seem to get their rocks off interjecting slam tactics to control the media.

Name calling Dude,yeah,that's acting like a real adult.

Go ahead,,,use the YB lingo,,,act like your some super cool member of a secret club or something,,,well I got a newsflash for ya',,, anybody can join that forum,,,BTDT...

The only one "controlling" this thread was you Dude,and I called you on it,it's that simple.

I have a suggestion,why dont you go over to YB.com and ask those guys what they think about this specific topic.

Ask those guys what pontiac blocks they would use to spray a 550 hp shot on top of whatever NA hp they make.

See how long they take you seriously when you argue the case for using a stock block based 900+ hp build like this guy was proposing.

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Same deal with all this deck height stuff (and the constant.. you have to have zero deck bla, bla, bla.) and i mentioned that with certain hp level power adders I run my pistons down in the hole and people boo ha'd that. But it works....

I dunno where on earth this comment is coming from???

As far as I recall nobody in this thread has even mentioned deck height...

But yeah,I have also felt the need to strive for zero deck is mostly a NA engine building concern (and even then it's often overstated by some),and as an example I even mentioned that deal in that other thread here about suggesting prefered IAII boost combos,so that is not a real new or original concept in engine building,not here,not anywhere really.

And funny thing about that other thread is the fact that I dont recall seeing you over in that thread trying to convince that fella he did'nt need the IAII block for that build,,,and the target HP he mentioned was'nt much different than what was initially stated in this thread...

So are you suggesting to these nice folks that a boost combo is somehow harder on the bottom end than a nitrous combo is?

To me 900 to 1000 hp is just that,and it really does'nt much matter how you got there in the grand scheme of things,just build for the power level you plan on making and everything hopefully lives happily ever after.

Yeah,I do agree this is getting quite tedious,I guess I'm done with this thread too,that is unless someone directly addresses me,or directly quotes a post of mine or such,then I may feel the need to respond like I have here.

Cheers folks,sorry for the rude interuption.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programing.

Hopefully.

[David Holmberg]

Ok Kids, don't make me break out the "time out" stick...

[Ron H]

Wow, he he. Pontiac porn at it's best, gotta love the bitters. They are sweet.

Hey Brandn74. What did you decide about the race? Are you going to still do it?

Would either scenario live if the tune up was off?

I have seen a few pro mod cars blow the heads off. And these guys have been at it a very long time running extremely fast and have all the best parts.

6.60 is an easy target.

[Brandn74]

Don't wanna pay a grand to back out so i don't have a choice right now.

[Ron H]

Originally Posted by Brandn74

Don't wanna pay a grand to back out so i don't have a choice right now.

I don't think you stated what the car ran with the 1.51 60' and 150 shot out of the hole.