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#61
11-11-2004, 08:55 PM
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VC,Tom and I can fix you up!I have the forging and he has the contact at Moldex.Tom
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#62
11-12-2004, 06:25 PM
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Well now, Ask and you will receive. What is the forging and what is the price? You know that small number all the way over on the left side of the price list. We are wanting to build a small displacement motor, just because. Send me an e-mail.
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If it breaks. I didn't want it in the first place. _____________________________________________ 69 GTO \ 72 FIREBIRD \ 1/2 OF A 64 GTO \ 70 JAVELIN \ 52 FORD PU \ 51 GMC PU \ 29 FORD PU \ 85 ALFA ROMEO SPYDER \ A HANDFUL OF ODD DUCATI'S \ 88 S10 LT1 BLAZER & MY DAILY DRIVER 67 SUBURBAN. |
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#63
11-12-2004, 07:10 PM
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Does anyone have any info on how many 400's and 455 motors were produced that could run a forged crank? That info would be very helpful.
I do agree that the GN guys will buy whats nessasary to make sure they are the fastest production turbo cars on the road. But they are also some of the cheapest guys in this market. They are just really lucky that a bunch of members own shops and can make them parts and at a pretty fair price. Check out who makes most of their items, all GN owners. Concerning Dave Crowers comments about the forged cranks, its not surprising that he did not want to spend any time talking about producing a forged crank. How much money do you think Eagle makes on the GN forged crank for $600, not much I bet considering Summit has to make some dough on that figure also. Not to say that having a cheaper billet is not needed, every contribution helps especially high quality and a lower price, but what about all the cars in the 600-900hp range? A billet crank does not sound like the right crank for those guys, a bit overkill to me. Calling and emailing manufactures does help, getting vendors on board will help even more.
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69 GTO Convertible, 4000lbs 462ci, 606tq/569hp - 93 oct at 34 deg (207psi) 11.7:1, KRE H Ports, Lunati HR 282/290 w Johnson Lifters & 1.65 Scorp, E30, EFI, Holley HP + Dual Sync, 12-1 Crank Trig, 120lb Inj & 1000cfm TB, Torker II EFI Int & Rails, PTC 10" 0 Stat, Ricks SS Gas Tank, Magna 4303, Aerom EFI Reg, Aero Front & Wilwood Rear Disc Brakes, Dougs 1 7/8" Headers & Borla Pro XS 3" Muffs, Alum Rad & Dual Fans, 12:1 Box, UMI Control Arms & Viking Berz Fr + Rear CO Shocks, Hella UP28 Vac Pump |
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#64
11-12-2004, 07:42 PM
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the only 400 forged cranks were RA Vs,No 455s were forged as far as I know.Tom
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#65
11-12-2004, 09:10 PM
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Tom S, interesting finding. Pretty ballsy of Pontiac to produce a forged crank for such a small number of motors made.
But, I was looking for the amount of cars that came with those engines. This way you have some figures on possible sales. Granted not even 1/5 of those motors will ever buy the crank, but if Eagle took a chance on only 54k GN motors possible, lets see the 400/455 motor numbers and compare.
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69 GTO Convertible, 4000lbs 462ci, 606tq/569hp - 93 oct at 34 deg (207psi) 11.7:1, KRE H Ports, Lunati HR 282/290 w Johnson Lifters & 1.65 Scorp, E30, EFI, Holley HP + Dual Sync, 12-1 Crank Trig, 120lb Inj & 1000cfm TB, Torker II EFI Int & Rails, PTC 10" 0 Stat, Ricks SS Gas Tank, Magna 4303, Aerom EFI Reg, Aero Front & Wilwood Rear Disc Brakes, Dougs 1 7/8" Headers & Borla Pro XS 3" Muffs, Alum Rad & Dual Fans, 12:1 Box, UMI Control Arms & Viking Berz Fr + Rear CO Shocks, Hella UP28 Vac Pump |
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#66
11-12-2004, 09:25 PM
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actually pontiac used forged cranks in pass. car engines since the late 50s,they had forged crankks in 3 3/4 stroke since 59 to 62,in 62-63 they made the 421SD cranks.They also had some 3in main forged cranks in 4in stroke and 4.21 stroke for the RA V program.Remember the factory could do a 1 off crank and think NOTHING of it.I am told they only made 3 4.21 stroke 3in main cranks.Actually Kellogs and Moldex actually machined the factory forgings.Tom
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#67
11-13-2004, 05:14 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
You guys are dreaming if you think anyone will ever produce a forged Pontiac crank for $700 or less. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> "Dreaming"... Hell their smoked-up!  Put the bong away.
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 SECOND AMENDMENT: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY! |
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#68
11-13-2004, 10:06 AM
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VC,
I know Tom would like to sell his crank but if you really need a 3.0 stroke, the 366 crank he has will not work. The crank cannot be destroked that far. I have a couple of the 303 cranks that will go to a 3.0 stroke if you use a chevy rod bearing and I could have one of those made for you. I would have to get the most recent price as the cranks machining goes up each January. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
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#69
11-13-2004, 10:28 AM
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Tom,what is the high and low stroke for the 366 forging with pontiac rods/Tom
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#70
11-13-2004, 01:55 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GOAT8U2:
But, I was looking for the amount of cars that came with those engines. This way you have some figures on possible sales. Granted not even 1/5 of those motors will ever buy the crank, but if Eagle took a chance on only 54k GN motors possible, lets see the 400/455 motor numbers and compare. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No offense, but these numbers mean absolutely nothing. How many Checker cabs have been built? How many survive? How many Checker cab enthusiasts are out there? Get my point?
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
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#71
11-14-2004, 05:43 AM
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I gotta QUESTION:
Assuming the 4.25-4.5" bore, are those 57-59 forged Pontiac cranks any good for 800-1500HP? HIS
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12.24/111.6MPH/1.76 60'/28"/3.54:1/SP-TH400/469 R96A/236-244-112LC/1050&TorkerI//3850Lbs//15MPG/89oct Sold 2003: 12.00/112MPH/1.61 60'/26"x3.31:1/10"/469 #48/245-255-110LSA/Q-Jet-Torker/3650Lbs//18MPG 94oct Sold 1994: 11.00/123MPH/1.50 60'/29.5"x4.10:1/10"/469 #48/245-255-110LSA/Dual600s-Wenzler/3250Lbs//94oct |
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#72
11-14-2004, 10:42 AM
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Maybe Dave Johnson will jump in,I think he told me his 61 forged SD crank would bend at the 700 plus range.I think he then used a cut down 990 and it held up better,he did go to a billet after the 800 range.Tom
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#73
11-14-2004, 06:14 PM
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366 can typically go between 3.2 and 3.550 with a
bb chevy rod journal. Rodney had one crank that used SB Chevy rods that went 3.625 but the oiling was bad on the rod journals due to a lack of "wall" at some points on the journal. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
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#74
11-16-2004, 01:14 PM
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I reached the limit of a 389 SD and RA V crank at around 800 hp and 8200 rpm. These were stroked to 3.875. I had one of each bend,one twice before I went to the Crower billet. It was probably the RPM more than the hp level that hurt them. I had bent acouple of Arma-Steel
4" stroke cranks with 3" mains at a lower hp and rpm limit. The 990 crank is underrated and one stout piece.It weighs about 72#,it's only drawback,but will take a beating. I never bent one except from an explosion,and it would always straighten without cracking. Even with the mains cut to 3",it is extremely durable and a great value at $800-$1000 |
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#75
11-16-2004, 01:51 PM
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Thanks for the info on the 990...good to hear about someone's experience with one that surpasses the HP and RPM levels it was originally intended for. I'll be utilizing one on the funny car with a 14-71 up top and a 7500 rpm ceiling, so this info makes me feel more comfortable.
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
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#76
11-16-2004, 02:24 PM
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Thanks Dave,was hoping you were lurking around.Tom
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#77
11-16-2004, 05:00 PM
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my 990 crank survived the first explsion so well I bought a second for the spare motor instead of the billet
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77 Trans Am All Steel, on 10" tires 8.30 @ 165 mph 3,380 LBS Mat it! Spray it! Chute it! Just another 8 Second Pass! |
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#78
11-16-2004, 08:18 PM
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Ray,
I bet you have TV's at your house that have TUBE's in them also   !
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#79
11-16-2004, 08:51 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GTOGEORGE:
Ray, I bet you have TV's at your house that have TUBE's in them also ! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nothing wrong with tubes. I would sooner die than own a solid state guitar amplifier. Tubes provide a much warmer sound. And in a TV set, when one blew out you just replaced it. Today when something goes wrong, you chuck it and buy a new TV. Let's stay on topic, shall we?
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
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#80
11-16-2004, 08:59 PM
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I truly didn't mean for anyone to get their panties in a bunch here. And I know that some of you get to spend a lot more time on the site than others. I was simply asking a question to get a feel for what you guys thought about the need for forged cranks. If there is a need, someone will make them.
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You know it's going to be a good day when you wake up breathing! |
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