[tom s]

I think it is set up to have the AQMD piss in it after its refined!Tom

[pontibeast]

Originally Posted by tom s

AZ 91 I will bet is better than CA 91 gas!Tom

I thought CA 91 was made of unicorn tears so they wouldn't pollute anything.

[surfsama]

Originally Posted by pontibeast

I thought CA 91 was made of unicorn tears so they wouldn't pollute anything.

Please don't give CARB any ideas.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Hmmmmm ... Nice numbers ... must get that cam. That will pull at warp speed.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by vidguy

It's been decided. We're gonna put the motor back on the dyno and do some comparisons!

Paul happened to get an SD ported intake in for another motor (probably the only one available in the country right now ) so he kindly offered to split the cost to do some testing. Here is what I'd like to do that Paul offered:

- A ported SD intake with my 750 Qjet. Same 91 octane gas (so that it is apples to apples)
- Paul's shops Holley on stock intake 91 octane gas
- A ported SD intake with Paul's shops Holley built by his buddy Jeff
- A Victor intake with Qjet
- A Victor intake with the Holley

I'm requesting that Paul run 101 or 103 octane for the last three tests.
Paul can you see if you can have the dyno's A/F gauge working correctly?

Paul, is this plan possible like we discussed?
Thanks for the offer Paul. I'm very interested in the results.

I'd like to see a pull with 4 tube headers installed on it, exactly as it sits now for comparison....

[shaker455]

Paul,
Nice work!
I'd say those CNC ported heads helped those numbers so must be good program.

What oil pump you use?
Melling MS-54 ?
Jeff

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by tom s

I think it is set up to have the AQMD piss in it after its refined!Tom

That must be why they call it 91 octane pump piss!

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

I'd like to see a pull with 4 tube headers installed on it, exactly as it sits now for comparison....

Wish I had some 4 tubers to try, but I don't.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by shaker455

Paul,
Nice work!
I'd say those CNC ported heads helped those numbers so must be good program.

What oil pump you use?
Melling MS-54 ?
Jeff

The Melling M-54D. Reworked it.

[gtofreek]

I just realized something. When I first dynoed this, and set the timing. I forgot all about hooking up the vacuum advance unit. I didn't unplug it before setting the timing.
Can't believe I made that rookie mistake. So ignition timing was probably only around 30°. I have not moved the distributor, so I will check it first thing to see where it really is. No wonder why it didn't ping. I feel like such an idiot for forgetting to disconnect it. I always disconnect the vacuum advance when setting timing on an engine. I guess since we usually don't dyno engines with vacuum advance hooked up, I didn't think about disconnecting it. It wasn't until I pulled the intake off, and unplugged the vacuum advance that I realized this error on my part.

Man, now I really can't wait to see what it does.

Also, since the factory intake is a spreadbore, it will be dynoed with the Q-jet, not the Holley. The victor intake is a squarebore, so it will get the Holley, and not the Q-jet. I don't think those adapter spacers are worth a crap, so I don't know how good of a comparison it would be using adapters to compare with. If I can find an adapter, I will try it, but I don't think they work too good. I'm thinking more along the lines of seeing what a bigger carb, and intake would do. The Holley we have is a 750 HP that Jeff worked over very hard. It was completely custom built for a 500 HP 407 Pontiac. It flows 999 CFM now. It was a beast, and super responsive, on the 407. Can't wait until tomorrow.

[Skip Fix]

Paul several years ago when I had the HO intake on my first E head motor for Shaker scoop use,I finally modded a base to use a Holley/Demon and a T2 later I did an at track swap from an 73 SD Q jet modified by Brad Urban's Carb Shop and an out of the box Demon 850 DP. I had to use the standard spacer/adapter to square bore to spread bore. The Demon idled better and ran 0.2 seconds faster! this was back to back runs I had fuel lines linkage all set to make it an easy swap. HO Intake had been port matched to RAIV gaskets when I ran it on the RAIV 400 in NMCA Top Stock. The KRE hand ported heads were even larger than the 1233 gaskets at the top.

So yes they may not flow as good but they are not all that bad either. Edelbrock has an adapter that also offsets forward to rear like the Chevy race intakes do that are drill for both carb patterns. It does need a little clean up. I'l shoot a picture of one I did.

[Skip Fix]

Looked at pictures-bolt pattern is not offset but it seems to address the rare Qjet bores I think a little better, and figure the SS guys have to use an adapter on the single plane intakes they usually use for Q jets or even old Carter 4bbls on old Chevies!

[Cliff R]

"I just realized something. When I first dynoed this, and set the timing. I forgot all about hooking up the vacuum advance unit. I didn't unplug it before setting the timing."

Very few factory vacuum advance canisters add only 10 degrees timing, so you may have had the actual total timing even lower than 30 degrees.

There is a big difference between an "adapter" and a "spacer". Adapters cause a much greater miss-match that spacers do, and some are considerably worse than others. I attached a pic below to show how bad the miss-match can be, if going from a square flange carb to a factory 4 hole spread bore intake. If going to an aftermarket intake, both plenum areas are open, so there isn't any real miss-match. Even so, the spread bore carburetors have the throttle bores more in the center of those intake plenum areas, which may be a slight advantage.

For Super Stock racing they are required to use the factory carburetor, which in many cases is a spread bore. Racers/engine builders who are doing this take great care to eliminate any miss-match between the carb and intake, so basically the spacer between the two parts is just that, rather than an "adapter". They raise the carburetors up to increase plenum area, and to get the throttle plates up out of the intake plenum area at the same time. They also take considerable time to provide a good match between the parts and eliminate any miss-alignment that would effect airflow.

From what I've seen with testing here, any single plane intake pretty much requires a spacer, and you can leave considerable power on the table bolting a carburetor right to one, especially a spread bore carburetor since the huge secondary throttle plates stick deeper in the plenum area, and can cause turbulence since the primary throttle plates aren't nearly as deep.......FWIW......Cliff

[Half-Inch Stud]

Couple questions, considering the Torqky 400;

1. Is the car planning to run the 1/4 mile with highway gears?
2. Or is the car planning to tow an RV?
3. What converter is planned?
4. Was the porting effort a strategy to attaing superior low-lift flow, then crowbar the valvelift to 0.3" lift & run 1:1 rockers arms?

[gtofreek]

It's a street car.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Couple questions, considering the Torqky 400;

1. Is the car planning to run the 1/4 mile with highway gears?
2. Or is the car planning to tow an RV?
3. What converter is planned?
4. Was the porting effort a strategy to attaing superior low-lift flow, then crowbar the valvelift to 0.3" lift & run 1:1 rockers arms?

Never expected it to have this much low end grunt. I think the ported intake will bring the peak HP rpm up, or at least I'm hoping. The cam is 231°/239° @ .050", so it's not small, and it has .600" lift. So not quite sure what you're talking about. And like I said above, it's for a street car. It's nice to have a power band in the entire usable RPM range on the street. From idle to 5500 or more. What more can you ask?

[69 Limelight]

If I remember correctly Vidguy plans on running in car with exhaust manifolds not headers. I'd like to see a pull with manifolds, down pipes and mufflers similar to what he plans on running along with air cleaner installed. See what HP and TQ he's actually going to be playing with and how it compares.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by 69 Limelight

If I remember correctly Vidguy plans on running in car with exhaust manifolds not headers. I'd like to see a pull with manifolds, down pipes and mufflers similar to what he plans on running along with air cleaner installed. See what HP and TQ he's actually going to be playing with and how it compares.

Several years back I did this very test on a 407 with ported KRE D-Ports. They flowed 297/220 @ .600". We dynoed it with RA Restorations 2.5" version of the 67 RA manifolds, with 2.5" pipes, X-pipe, mufflers, tailpipes. It made 506 HP with that bolted up. Then we installed these same 3 tube headers on it, open, and it made 522 HP, but less peak torque. I was surprised that exhaust system only hurt it 16 HP compared to these open headers. Either it's a good exhaust system, or these headers suck! 4 tube would be nice, but I don't have access to any. We also dynoed a 455 with these 3 tube open headers, then installed the RA Resto system[exact same system as the 407 since we dynoed them within days of each other]. This system hurt the 455 by 45 HP. The 455 made in the 550 HP range and had ported 6X heads[249/219], 9.9:1 compression, and a 263°/271° @ .050" UD solid roller cam. So you can see, this system is much better suited for the 400 and smaller engines. Which is to be expected.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Paul,
The motor performance seems fantastic. So I was aiming at whether highway gears were intended from the get-go.

All the other questions were just funnin with extrapolation.

[vidguy]

Real interested in the pulls tomorrow Paul. Get that good gas in it buddy.

Car will run with the 2:93 8.5 Olds Posi that I have in it right now for the time being. TH400. Continental Pontiac Special. It is a street car that will be taken to the track to see what it can do.

Porting was a might as well, since I wanted Dave at SD to rebuild the original 670's and open the chamber to lower the Compression a bit Dave said he just doesn't see the sense in putting it in the CNC machine to open the chambers without porting them also..., he said it's really worth it.
It appears to be true.

I do have 15 year old or so Ram Air Restoration Manifolds that he opened to 2 1/2 inches. Exhaust is a Torque Thrust 2 1/2" into Flowmaster Delta 50's with no crossover.

Car has been topped with a Jon Havens built Tri-Power for a decade or more. Love the thing but I'll be shelving that (or selling it).