[slowbird]

Sorry just remembered 1 case that the engine like the cam straight up, it was on our 474 that was in our GTO the lsa was 106 on that cam, we tried 104 lca but it ran better at 106.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Sorry just remembered 1 case that the engine like the cam straight up, it was on our 474 that was in our GTO the lsa was 106 on that cam, we tried 104 lca but it ran better at 106.

How was the vacuum on this engine?

[TedRamAirII]

Well....if the wheel is round, how do you improve it? Sounds like Cliff has already done the research for all of us. Been there, done that, proven what works and what does not. Why waste time, money, and possible engine damage. nothing against you Brent, but you do mostly Ford, so arguing what a well established Pontiac engine builder / tuner know to be a fact isnt going to win any possible Pontiac Customers. I know, that I would follow the advice of a well established Pontiac Tuner.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

How was the vacuum on this engine?

Lol, no idea there is no vacuum gauge in the car.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Well....if the wheel is round, how do you improve it? Sounds like Cliff has already done the research for all of us. Been there, done that, proven what works and what does not. Why waste time, money, and possible engine damage. nothing against you Brent, but you do mostly Ford, so arguing what a well established Pontiac engine builder / tuner know to be a fact isnt going to win any possible Pontiac Customers. I know, that I would follow the advice of a well established Pontiac Tuner.

There is always room for improvement. Fyi the fastest N/A Pontiacs in the world are built by non Pontiac builders. There is always something to be learned!

[blykins]

Each engine has a few of its own traits that you have to watch out for, but for the most part every single engine out there works off the same principles.

I have never seen a well designed and well thought out street engine not be helped by advanced cam timing. Cliff didn't mean to do it, but his testimony on changing the intake centerline to various positions backed up exactly what my point was.

Will advanced cam timing always make more horsepower? Probably not. But since I got slaughtered for talking about performance in the "street forum", I figured I would mention something that would lend itself to tunability and drivability.

By the way, Jon Kaase did very very well at the engine Masters challenge with a Pontiac engine… But he is also a Ford guy. :-). My last Pontiac was a 409 inch engine that made 600 hp and 540 lbft. Got two more in here now. Maybe I will post some build threads.

[promptcritical]

How did that 409 run with power brakes and air conditioning?

[blykins]

I hung my foot out the door to stop and mounted a Disney World water spray bottle on the dash.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by blykins

I hung my foot out the door to stop and mounted a Disney World water spray bottle on the dash.

How much vacuum did the engine have? Do you need to buy a bottle of vacuum?

[Steve C.]

Our NEW Silent Drive Pump System runs 70% quieter and 10x more effecient than any other system on the market. Running a big cam and getting less than adequate vacuum for your power brakes? Solve those problems with our electric vacuum pump system and get rid of that aggrevating pump noise. Our system exceeds all OEM quality standards and includes everything you need for installation including up to 8' of new vacuum line.

Enjoy your 600 hp street car

.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by slowbird

There is always room for improvement. Fyi the fastest N/A Pontiacs in the world are built by non Pontiac builders. There is always something to be learned!

^^^Truth^^^

[blykins]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

How much vacuum did the engine have? Do you need to buy a bottle of vacuum?

I already had a bottle. I keep it beside of my air-cooled Volkswagen antifreeze bottle and my bin of muffler bearings.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Enjoy your 600 hp street car

.

My 640 horsepower street car is quite enjoyable and operates the power brakes without any kind of pump or cannister. If the engine is designed and assembled properly you should be fine in the 600 hp range with the factory power brake set up.

Another place where $$ can be saved.

[dataway]

Well in my case ... I would certainly consider degreeing the camshaft to stock specs, part and parcel with making it run like it was supposed to from the factory ... so yes, I will at least purchase a degree wheel and check it with the old Cloyes timing set I have ... then progress from there.

Considering that the price difference between a standard double roller set, and an adjustable set is minimal ... should I just go ahead and purchase a 9 key set? 3 key set? From the get go?

I'd actually love to know that the cam is right on the money. I mean, if I'm not going to advance it ... at least I should know that it's where it's supposed to be.

As you guys say ... that would fall under the category of proper blue-printing.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by dataway

Well in my case ... I would certainly consider degreeing the camshaft to stock specs, part and parcel with making it run like it was supposed to from the factory ... so yes, I will at least purchase a degree wheel and check it with the old Cloyes timing set I have ... then progress from there.

Considering that the price difference between a standard double roller set, and an adjustable set is minimal ... should I just go ahead and purchase a 9 key set? 3 key set? From the get go?

I'd actually love to know that the cam is right on the money. I mean, if I'm not going to advance it ... at least I should know that it's where it's supposed to be.

As you guys say ... that would fall under the category of proper blue-printing.

I would go with a 9-keyway set. They will allow you to adjust in 2° increments.

And yes, knowing where it is, is half the battle. That's just a normal part of assembly.

[68azbird]

Squidward went thru 3 different timing sets on his 350 build and all 3 timing sets were off from one another. These numbers were not due to user error. You can't assume these days that brand y timing set has been dead on last time so I'll just line it up dot to dot and it will be fine. Most everything manufactured these days just gets tossed in the box and sold without any type of Q.C.

[Skip Fix]

I find it easier to go different cam keys vs 9 way gear. Easier to fine tune for me.

[Will]

Where do you get the keys? Used to be small block Mopar offset keys were available at Chrysler dealers but I don't think they are any more...?

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by slowbird

There is always room for improvement. Fyi the fastest N/A Pontiacs in the world are built by non Pontiac builders. There is always something to be learned!

Exactly correct!

Recall Jon Kaase and his Engine Masters 507 Pontiac that ran a 107 LSA cam.
http://www.hotrod.com/events/coverag...racing-engine/

In another Engine Masters Pontiac entry Chad Speier ported the KRE high ports.

Dan Barton has done amazing work on many Pontiac heads.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by Will

Where do you get the keys? Used to be small block Mopar offset keys were available at Chrysler dealers but I don't think they are any more...?

The Chrysler part number is in Jim Hand's book, my copy is under an avalanche of other books...somewhere...

Chef,
Thanks for posting the link to Kaase's EM build, an awesome read! ANYONE reading this thread, take the time to read it!
I got to talk to him a few years ago at Tulsa, the last IHRA event held there, he was great to talk to!