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#41
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Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#42
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Gach
I brought up what Harold Brookshire and Tim, who worked with Harold for 21 years, used years ago as only one good example of many. And when they used those UD lobes in a Pontiac it was with their valvetrain mass at the time, and again years ago. NOT something like a High Port head used today. Thus my comment. Onward thru the fog ! .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
#43
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#44
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"What brace did you run ?"
The brace was from SD Performance nearly as I can remember. The engine described above was doomed from day one. There just isn't enough material in a stock block to push power levels that high and get them to live. Some get away with it, others do not, but these blocks just don't have a lot of materal in the lifter bore area holding both halves together unless it's a 73-74 Super Duty.......
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
The Following User Says Thank You to Cliff R For This Useful Post: | ||
#45
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Its well known you can get 650 HP out of a 455- 4.25 stroker on pump gas with a good set of heads and the right parts. And they last and last
People do it with 2 bolt blocks and studs too. That was what this build started out to be. Only with splayed main caps and block fill which is all done. Now, since I am making more money I thought I would try and get a little more power out of it. And I am not trying to do it with putting more stress on the engine, more RPM, crazy CR. The cam as it is now is even less stressful than the Crower cam Whitmore got me. A lifter bore brace is not even required with the Bullet cam as it stands right now. But I have a full SD lifter brace. The engine will not see over 6800 RPM. I am trying to get 40-50 more HP out of a better cam and things like back cut rings that are gas ported and using a V pump. Better pan with kickout and duel scrapper. Those things are worth power and do nothing to put more stress on the block. I had a 1050 custom built for this engine too. But I bracket race and most likely the carb that will be on it when I race will be the same old 850 HP I have run for years. You are better off bracket racing with a 4150 carb vs a 4500 carb in my experience . The guy who built the 1050 told me the same thing. Gogtogo runs a .440 lobe on his street driven 14-1 High Port stroker making 740 HP. Now would I be better off trying to do this with a set of ported E heads ? I think so. For the vast majority of Pontiac builds they are the better choice. The only place I have figured out the HP head is better is the far end of the racing spectrum and very few builds at that. But the High Ports are what I have and are a fine head and these flow really well for a pocket ported head. Like a wide port almost. And other people have done what I am trying to do and the engine lived just fine. |
#46
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#47
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As said above pressure angle, and It is much more complex than peak lobe lift. Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
The Following User Says Thank You to Stan Weiss For This Useful Post: | ||
#48
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#49
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Brian,
I sure in '67 when Pontiac changed the valve incline angle that they were told to make it fit with all of the other parts. Otherwise there is no good reason not to have made the head taller and raised the port. Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#50
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Thats not what he said.
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#51
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If Scot Brown can spec a cam with a near .460 lobe and have it live fine in Jakes 434 then its not about lift being the big killer of stock blocks. Its blasting a lifter bore out sideways. |
#52
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Well, for the ported to the max big time race builds, no.
Even though the highest NA powered Pontiac was still Leech with his E heads. You could say its really a theory that HPs are a better race head. Even though I think they are. But for 95% of us the E head will more than get the job done. And you don't have to worry about hood clearance, crossover, valve covers hitting things ect. Or deal with the 1" longer valve that it turns out is a issue in a stock block pushing the limits. I don't think its insurmountable but it must be taken into account. I really like the High Port head. Its really thick, nice and solid as you know. More room to port and all that. But I would not mind having a set of SDs 340-350cfm standard port E heads with the new chamber either. You could make a 700HP NA Pontiac stroker with those too. |
#53
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#54
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#55
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Here Jake's cam card, Jake didn't have a lot of time on the engine, I'd bet he would have issues if he had more time on it. It's a pretty aggressive cam, lift/duration it up there.
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#56
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You don't think the heavier valve requiring more valve spring pressure is a issue in a stock block ? What I am trying to say is you can pretty much get whatever horsepower you want out of a E head with less issues. Where the High Port wins is the very high effort stuff and there are very few of those. If you want 800, 900 pump gas horsepower you can do it with E heads. Very few want more than that. I bought my High Port so long ago the wide ports were stuck at 370-380cfm. The big power E heads were not even invented yet. And the ported std port E heads were 330cfm at best so I bought the High Ports . Hey, at least you can get High Ports right now. Not sure you can even get Edelbrocks newest Pontiac head at the moment. |
#57
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List all the 900hp pump gas e-heads that are out there, please And no I don't think valve weight is an issue in low rpm builds. Last edited by slowbird; 07-06-2023 at 05:50 PM. |
#58
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900 hp pump gas na with e- heads?
LOL Only Pontiac I've seen top those kinds of numbers on pump gas had Bischoff's RAV head on it. |
#59
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X2 .That cam spec’d by Scott Brown looked like it was pretty aggressive for it’s duration and lift in a stock block. Hard too tell how aggressive though just looking a cam card. Usually though with that .012” tight hot lash and higher lift combo, I would agree, pretty darn aggressive. |
#60
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I wouldn't run Jake's cam in a stock unless I planned to replace it a lot, lol. Short duration and high lift usually side load a lot (I understand there's more to it). I plan to run that in an IA block on the street, I think it'll be ok in it. |
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