[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by 78w72

I highly doubt the lucas display has gold colored piss water on the other side or is doing anything deceptive, thats not a very scientific way to try & dispel something by making up a far fetched imaginary scenario.

Penzoil is excellent oil based on all the VOA's (virgin oil analysis) Ive seen in the last ~20 years... when did you use it, 40-50 years ago when you first started driving? I have used penzoil off & on since 30 some years ago with no signs of what you mentioned and have used it in recent years with zero negative issues, about to do a change on my daily with it in a couple weeks, will report back if my oil psi drops A LOT or at all.

Penzoil meets the same API specs as any other oil, aside from some specialty oils all name brand modern oils meet the same API standards as they are updated. Based on the Shell engineers comments, penzoil or any other oil is OK to use because it meets the API standards...

Obviously I was exaggerating about gold colored piss water to make a point. That we don't know what their display is really comparing. Anyone that's impressed by that display can do so freely. That display proves nothing to me. Good oil should have sufficient film strength inherent to it's design. That's my belief. How well does "sticky" oil drain back to the crankcase? That's another concern I have with the theory. How does it affect the detergent action of the oil? IDK. I'll start shopping for additives the day I see a clear performance deficiency with oil straight out of the container. The stuff is expensive enough to start with.

I started driving 40 years ago. I agree that Penzzoil may be completely different now. The specs were lesser back then compared to other brands. I haven't checked lately. But, back then, some oils met higher standards than others. So there was a clear linkage between my observations and the API rating.

[JSchmitz]

Always been a fan of Kenwood products. Have their 6x9's in the GTO. They sound great! Had Pioneer Supertuners back in the day though. Still have one on the shelf. Alpine is top notch...

[Tim Corcoran]

Although different view points were expressed and a controversial topic everyone has been respectful of others. We have great people on this board. Personally I believe Lake did a good job of scientifically evaluating some of the more popular oil additives. I wonder what would have happened if they put STP in the Lucas climbing oil contraption at auto parts stores. Would it have surpassed the Lucas stabilizer in the demo? I would be willing to bet that contraption that Lucas placed in literally thousands of auto part stores sold millions worth of the stabilizer. You have to admit that was a pure genius idea. I think STP had a TV commercial where you dip a screwdriver in STP then try to hold on to the tip without it slipping out. Does anyone remember that commercial about 50 or so years ago. I can remember doing just that, I remember STP passed the test and I couldn't hold the screwdriver. I was a believer in STP after that. My cousin had a Ford Falcon and his transmission was slipping. I poured in a can of STP into my cousins Falcon's automatic transmission. I don't remember if it helped or not we were kids we had fun that was over 50 years ago.

[Elarson]

A long time ago, I was in a parts store. A guy who had obviously never changed his oil before was asking for help. He asked for the cheapest filter that they had. He asked for the cheapest oil that they had. Then he spotted the Slick 50 display and asked whether it was any good. The counter sales guy said "we sell alot of it and nobody has ever brought any back". The uninformed buyer was impressed and bought a bottle of it.....after picking the cheapest junk oil and filter.

Eric

[misterp266]

Btw ..... Who makes the best car stereo, Pioneer, Marantz, Kenwood etc.

Had a Pioneer Super Tuner with cassette back in the day. Still have it.
I no longer think a stereo belongs in a hot rod. I would rather listen to a good exhaust note and listen to music at home on a quality stereo. When I listen to music, that’s what I’m doing, it’s not a background distraction.

Also used STP back in the day as well.

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by misterp266

Btw ..... Who makes the best car stereo, Pioneer, Marantz, Kenwood etc.

Had a Pioneer Super Tuner with cassette back in the day. Still have it.
I no longer think a stereo belongs in a hot rod. I would rather listen to a good exhaust note and listen to music at home on a quality stereo. When I listen to music, that’s what I’m doing, it’s not a background distraction.

Also used STP back in the day as well.

Learned something there (Science, Technology, Performance). Might have forgotten it though. Ha

I recently removed my old Supertuner and got my AM radio filled with AM/FM and Bluetooth. The thing cranks!

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

I have not to my knowledge. What do the engines look like, that you have disassembled, that didn't use Lucas? I have a Troybilt walk behind that's 20 years old. Still runs perfectly and doesn't smoke. Start right up every time. Just run straight 30w. Ever try to get straight 30w off of your hands? Try to wipe 20w50 off of your hand. Pretty damn sticky to me! I've probably saved enough money, not buying an additive every year, to buy a new engine. Or at least parts to rebuild it.

There is a huge difference in the stickiness of oil with Lucas in it and oil without.
If you ever ran it you would know.
Even the distributor had a noticeable film on it when I removed it.
A quart of it will get you at least 7 oil changes in a lawn mower so cost is little.
I have, to my knowledge the longest lasting Pontiac bracket 455 I know of, we are talking about 30 years of beating on a engine with original pistons and crank, 1 rod change, 3 rod bearing changes and 2 main bearing changes with Lucas in the crankcase.
When I went to a roller cam the only thing on that cam was Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Soaked the lifters in oil and dipped them in Lucas.
What did it prove, that it did what it was intended to do.
But its not snake oil. It actually has a purpose. Particularity on keeping some old smoker engine alive.
But I would not run it on a 8000 RPM engine either.
Thad said, I just bought a case of this

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NJPT1T4...roduct_details

And it will get nothing but whats in the bottle.
BTW, Shaffers does make their own additive. Its called Micron Molly and I bought some. But the oil I bought from them will not get it, already has it. I called their oil engineer and was told their already has it and would have too much.

[Cliff R]

Snake oil or not I use Lucas oil additive and their fuel treatment and will continue to do so. I don't know jack crap about how well the oil additive works, but for sure the fuel additive improves engine performance slightly with a slight increase in fuel economy. I've logged MPG's on several occassions with and without it plus ZERO problems with anything in the fuel systems of the vehicles and equipment I use it in.

With the oil additive in vehicle engines I give them a couple of ounces at each oil change. It mixes thoroughly with the oil but does it help with lubrication and protectiong vital oil lubricated components, I have no idea.

Just like the billion dollar supplement industry selling all sort of products to make you healthier, stronger, thinner, live longer and a sexual Tyrannosaurus in the bedroom....does any of that crap work? Who knows, all the advertising and testimonials tell you it does. You'll NEVER get a good answer or any accurate study on the vast majority of it, and the for the most part the ONLY folks making all those claims/telling you how good it all is are the ones selling it!.......FWIW......

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by zippy

That's actually interesting. I have lots of 2 stroke powersports here. Sleds Bikes RC Planes etc. So always a couple gallons of Opti2 on my shelf

Something else it helps in with these classic cars, since we all pretty much have ethanol fuels now, is it appears to me to keep corrosion in the fuel system at bay.
Like I've mentioned I've used it for 25 years or so in all the classic cars, a couple of them daily driven, some sit for periods of time, but all of them have never had a single issue with the fuel system. I've had carbs apart for one reason or another, jetting, playing with things, and they always looks spotless inside, no white corrosion or anything of the sort. My fuel filters look great (cleanable filters with mesh screens) and I seem to get decades of use out of fuel pumps now both mechanical and electrical (in tank) setups. The 2 cycle oil puts lubricity back into the fuel and that's a good thing. That's what leaded fuels used to do.

So lots of benefits other than just lubricating the top of the engine.

[Tim Corcoran]

Engine oils are not all the same just because they meet the same API standards. If they use a less robust stock oil they will need to add more additives to pass the multiple tests to meet the API standards. The same if they start out using a better grade stock less additives need to be added. Most believe by starting off with a higher quality grade stock the end result will be better. I think most of us understand that sponsorship of an oil or other products for that matter is in no way an endorsement of the product. When I select an oil for performance use I try to choose one that I am sure is popular with racers, I mean they actually use the stuff not endorse it. Most of us have no idea what the big time racers actually use. The oil that my brother in law formulates for Childress Racing is highly propriety. It's not sold to any other race team and not to the general public. Lucas gives them the oil for free and it's constantly under development. New formulas are continually tested on their million dollar dynos to see if there is any improvement in HP and wear characteristics. NASCAR uses the thinnest oil that will keep the engine alive for the duration of the race. I have been to the Childress facility twice with my bother in law. The first time I was given a very detailed tour of their engine building facility and I saw some things that I would not share with the public. I can tell you I was like a kid in a candy store getting a personal tour by some of the top engineers in the racing business. I even got to watch dyno testing on their million dollar dynos. The dynos are serious business. The engine can be running at 8,000 RPM and with a flip of the switch the engine shuts off then the dyno is turning the engine and at the same RPM. Now the dyno is measuring the drag of the engine at full operating temperature and at any RPM. At a flip of the switch this can switch back to the engine turning the dyno and it happens instantly. Pretty impressive stuff.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

Obviously I was exaggerating about gold colored piss water to make a point. That we don't know what their display is really comparing. Anyone that's impressed by that display can do so freely. That display proves nothing to me. Good oil should have sufficient film strength inherent to it's design. That's my belief. How well does "sticky" oil drain back to the crankcase? That's another concern I have with the theory. How does it affect the detergent action of the oil? IDK. I'll start shopping for additives the day I see a clear performance deficiency with oil straight out of the container. The stuff is expensive enough to start with.

I started driving 40 years ago. I agree that Penzzoil may be completely different now. The specs were lesser back then compared to other brands. I haven't checked lately. But, back then, some oils met higher standards than others. So there was a clear linkage between my observations and the API rating.

Exaggerating is fine, but that doesnt make much of a point assuming they are trying to deceive anyone, im sure if there was any funny business that someone in the 20 years that display has been around would have figured it out & plastered it all over the internet or in the car world. Its real oil on one side & the same oil treated with lucas on the other. Im pretty sure the stores added the oil themselves, lucas didnt ship them with oil in it, a good friend of mine was a manager at oreillys for 10+ years, hes the type that would call BS on things like that.

Oil alone doesnt have the clinging effect that lucas or other additives have, its diluted to 10% so doesnt effect drain back, just adds a stronger film to parts which helps with dry starts etc as dragncar has explained a few times. If you are a skeptic of it you are free to do so, but that doesnt mean it doesnt do what it says or there is anything deceptive about it.

Not sure what years you are saying oils had lesser specs than others, but if they were certified to meet an API spec they all met that spec, but just like today oils do have different additive packs, each brand formulates their oil a little different, doesnt make any of them inferior as far as API specs are concerned. Ive heard stories of old penzoil causing sludge, maybe that was a certain run or blend 40-50 years ago, but none of that applies today.

Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran

Although different view points were expressed and a controversial topic everyone has been respectful of others. We have great people on this board. Personally I believe Lake did a good job of scientifically evaluating some of the more popular oil additives. I wonder what would have happened if they put STP in the Lucas climbing oil contraption at auto parts stores. Would it have surpassed the Lucas stabilizer in the demo? I would be willing to bet that contraption that Lucas placed in literally thousands of auto part stores sold millions worth of the stabilizer. You have to admit that was a pure genius idea. I think STP had a TV commercial where you dip a screwdriver in STP then try to hold on to the tip without it slipping out. Does anyone remember that commercial about 50 or so years ago. I can remember doing just that, I remember STP passed the test and I couldn't hold the screwdriver. I was a believer in STP after that. My cousin had a Ford Falcon and his transmission was slipping. I poured in a can of STP into my cousins Falcon's automatic transmission. I don't remember if it helped or not we were kids we had fun that was over 50 years ago.

STP may very well do the same thing as lucas, it is a very sticky oil thickener too, but STP does have some actual zddp anti wear additives, there are VOA's out there on it, it used to have a lot more but still has some and actually says it on the bottle. Either way STP nor lucas stabilizer are snake oils, they do what they say, lucas never claimed to have other additives in it, its just a thickener when needed and has other properties that can help some engines that may need that type of stuff. https://www.stp.com/product/oil-treatment/

If the engine is healthy and the oil is of good quality and correct weight for the engine, most dont need additives, but using a little lucas or stp doesnt hurt anything and can actually help in certain engines.

Alpine & Clarion were a coupe of the better car audio brands, pioneer & kenwood were good too but the higher end stores sold alpine, clarion & a few other brands that werent mainstream.

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Exaggerating is fine, but that doesnt make much of a point assuming they are trying to deceive anyone, im sure if there was any funny business that someone in the 20 years that display has been around would have figured it out & plastered it all over the internet or in the car world. Its real oil on one side & the same oil treated with lucas on the other. Im pretty sure the stores added the oil themselves, lucas didnt ship them with oil in it, a good friend of mine was a manager at oreillys for 10+ years, hes the type that would call BS on things like that.

Oil alone doesnt have the clinging effect that lucas or other additives have, its diluted to 10% so doesnt effect drain back, just adds a stronger film to parts which helps with dry starts etc as dragncar has explained a few times. If you are a skeptic of it you are free to do so, but that doesnt mean it doesnt do what it says or there is anything deceptive about it.

Not sure what years you are saying oils had lesser specs than others, but if they were certified to meet an API spec they all met that spec, but just like today oils do have different additive packs, each brand formulates their oil a little different, doesnt make any of them inferior as far as API specs are concerned. Ive heard stories of old penzoil causing sludge, maybe that was a certain run or blend 40-50 years ago, but none of that applies today.



STP may very well do the same thing as lucas, it is a very sticky oil thickener too, but STP does have some actual zddp anti wear additives, there are VOA's out there on it, it used to have a lot more but still has some and actually says it on the bottle. Either way STP nor lucas stabilizer are snake oils, they do what they say, lucas never claimed to have other additives in it, its just a thickener when needed and has other properties that can help some engines that may need that type of stuff. https://www.stp.com/product/oil-treatment/

If the engine is healthy and the oil is of good quality and correct weight for the engine, most dont need additives, but using a little lucas or stp doesnt hurt anything and can actually help in certain engines.

Alpine & Clarion were a coupe of the better car audio brands, pioneer & kenwood were good too but the higher end stores sold alpine, clarion & a few other brands that werent mainstream.

You're accusing me of assuming? All of your arguments are based on your assumptions. I pretty sure of this and that. WTFE. I'm surprised you didn't argue about the stereo brands. LOL!

[78w72]

No accusations at all, just logical replies to your statements... but if you want to get personal with "WTFE" & accusing me of arguing, then yes, your statements are 100% assumptions, nothing you said is based on facts or legitimate experiences that others have had with the product... are you saying cliff, dragncar & others that have actually used it are making assumptions based on their experiences too??

Everything I said is factual based on my experience, wasnt trying to argue anything, you are implying that lucas is deceiving everyone with fake displays filled with something other than legit oil on one side & lucas added to oil on the other. If you have some actual facts to back up your claims Id love to hear them, until then they are subjective opinions... sounds like youve never even used it.

The car stereo brands comment was sarcastic, kinda like the best pizza toppings, everyone has their favorites, I mentioned a couple brands I used back in the day too... not everything has to be an argument, sorry if you took offense to my comments or read into them more than they were intended, just saying my experience with lucas, it does what I said in my small engines & also adds some clinging to the oil that does help with dry starts in any engine.

Good thing nobody mentioned oil filters, sheesh!

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Everything I said is factual based on my experience,

So true. "Im pretty sure the stores added the oil themselves, lucas didnt ship them with oil in it"

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Snake oil or not I use Lucas oil additive and their fuel treatment and will continue to do so. I don't know jack crap about how well the oil additive works, but for sure the fuel additive improves engine performance slightly with a slight increase in fuel economy. I've logged MPG's on several occassions with and without it plus ZERO problems with anything in the fuel systems of the vehicles and equipment I use it in.

With the oil additive in vehicle engines I give them a couple of ounces at each oil change. It mixes thoroughly with the oil but does it help with lubrication and protectiong vital oil lubricated components, I have no idea.

Just like the billion dollar supplement industry selling all sort of products to make you healthier, stronger, thinner, live longer and a sexual Tyrannosaurus in the bedroom....does any of that crap work? Who knows, all the advertising and testimonials tell you it does. You'll NEVER get a good answer or any accurate study on the vast majority of it, and the for the most part the ONLY folks making all those claims/telling you how good it all is are the ones selling it!.......FWIW......

As I mentioned, I too use Lucas products and believe in them because of my own experiences. It doesn't matter some unknown brother-in-law claims
snake oil remedy only, who is probably a phantom anyway!! To me, these products work, and I will continue to use them. It does however give me more comfort to know you use them as I believe you thoroughly research many products in the years you've been involved in the automotive hobby.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

So true. "Im pretty sure the stores added the oil themselves, lucas didnt ship them with oil in it"

Yep, saying that based on common sense that if these displays were bogus as you implied, it would have been exposed a long time ago... and a friend being a manager at a parts store for 10+ years. I can ask him if they came prefilled or not if youd like. But until then, you have provided zero evidence to back up your claims that there is anything other than legit oil & oil with lucas in them.

Same for mine & others experience with it for a couple decades, would you like to come over & see my mower not smoke as much with lucas in it vs without, or that it has quieter bearing noise when dry started or shut off??

Dont like lucas, dont use it... but the far fetched claims about it are rather trivial.

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Yep, saying that based on common sense that if these displays were bogus as you implied, it would have been exposed a long time ago... and a friend being a manager at a parts store for 10+ years. I can ask him if they came prefilled or not if youd like. But until then, you have provided zero evidence to back up your claims that there is anything other than legit oil & oil with lucas in them.

Same for mine & others experience with it for a couple decades, would you like to come over & see my mower not smoke as much with lucas in it vs without, or that it has quieter bearing noise when dry started or shut off??

Dont like lucas, dont use it... but the far fetched claims about it are rather trivial.

The auto displays you're referring too, impressed me enough to try Lucas and gauge its effectiveness with my cars. It works for me, and I use them. People believe what they want to believe no matter how much evidence you present to them. We see this in politics all the time. If you don't like Lucas, fine don't use it!! Period....

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Yep, saying that based on common sense that if these displays were bogus as you implied, it would have been exposed a long time ago... and a friend being a manager at a parts store for 10+ years. I can ask him if they came prefilled or not if youd like. But until then, you have provided zero evidence to back up your claims that there is anything other than legit oil & oil with lucas in them.

Same for mine & others experience with it for a couple decades, would you like to come over & see my mower not smoke as much with lucas in it vs without, or that it has quieter bearing noise when dry started or shut off??

Dont like lucas, dont use it... but the far fetched claims about it are rather trivial.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought everything you said was factual based on your experience. Now it's common sense. It's uncommon sense BTW. XOXO

Just to show that I'm not closed minded, I will try the fuel additive. Not putting the oil additive in anything I own. Might put some in the neighbors mower! LOL! I'll put some fuel additive in my 2004 GMC Sierra 2500HD. It has 180k on the clock. Original engine and transmission. Runs like a top. Doesn't smoke or burn any noticeable oil between 5k intervals. Use Valvoline high mileage 5w30.

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by Ram Air IV Jack

The auto displays you're referring too, impressed me enough to try Lucas and gauge its effectiveness with my cars. It works for me, and I use them. People believe what they want to believe no matter how much evidence you present to them. We see this in politics all the time. If you don't like Lucas, fine don't use it!! Period....

You were impressed and I was not. I think I have as much right to be skeptical as you have to be believe. Fair? What evidence are you referring to? Hard evidence. Quantifiable evidence. Not, my mower is quiet and doesn't smoke. Mine does both without Lucas.

[JSchmitz]

I did a search for "what's in Lucas oil stabilizer"

Here are some results:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm (not sure what's up with the images)

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...ilizer.132922/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...ilizer.164890/

https://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=8419