[78w72]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

Why?

just curious since this thread is about roller lifters....

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by 78w72

just curious since this thread is about roller lifters....

Why does one make more noise than the other? A roller on one and not the other? If oil is a big deal on hyd rollers, it should be a big deal on flat hyd`s?
No?

[78w72]

why? i have no idea but these retrofit hyd roller lifters have been notorious for noise since they came out, different brands are better than others but its not an issue for the majority of FT lifters or at least not like it is for hyd rollers. some say its the location of the oil hole, some say QC issues, maybe the plungers are different enough that the oil weight can make a difference?

the suggestion for a specific weight with hyd rollers comes from the manufacturers & reputable builders like SD performance etc, im just trying to pass that on to see if it helps, but apparently some question or deny it for some reason. if the lifter(s) are defective then obviously oil weight wont matter.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by 78w72

why? i have no idea but these retrofit hyd roller lifters have been notorious for noise since they came out, different brands are better than others but its not an issue for the majority of FT lifters or at least not like it is for hyd rollers. some say its the location of the oil hole, some say QC issues, maybe the plungers are different enough that the oil weight can make a difference?

the suggestion for a specific weight with hyd rollers comes from the manufacturers & reputable builders like SD performance etc, im just trying to pass that on to see if it helps, but apparently some question or deny it for some reason. if the lifter(s) are defective then obviously oil weight wont matter.

It`s all good. I did mention QC issues in my earlier post.


I`m going to find out myself soon. I have a new 455 here with Johnson HR lifters. I filled this thing with Valvoline 10w30 full synthetic. It`s coming up on a oil change. I have 3 cases of Valvoline 20w50 VR1 that I intend on using. So, at least on these lifters, I`ll find out.

Guess I`ll have to report back what it does.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

54D-S provides 55 psi at cruise, 54F (SD) provides 80 psi at cruise.

80 psi is ideal for a large journal engine. I don't really buy into the whole distributor drive gear wear wives-tale. I have run the 54F for many years with no adverse effects on a stock HEI distributor gear. For those running a composite or brass gear, yeah, you will wear them out faster with an 80 psi pump.

No it is not. I am quite certain the vast majority of engine builders go with a 60lb pump for most of their large journal engine builds.
Where it is cold and a guy has 20-50 in their 455 with 80lb pump it is possible to blow the oil filter apart on warm up. You can twist a billet pump shaft too. That alone tells you all you need to know.
I have a TRW 455 like you,60lb pump. It has been running longer, been beat harder than your 455 and still running.(faster too)
80lb pump is out dated, old school thinking and at this point, a wives tale.

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Uh I believe he called me off the rails and I merely responded in kind.

Fair enough, I missed the play.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Figure out which lifter is making the noise and readjust. Go back to zero lash and preload with 1 turn.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

No it is not. I am quite certain the vast majority of engine builders go with a 60lb pump for most of their large journal engine builds.
Where it is cold and a guy has 20-50 in their 455 with 80lb pump it is possible to blow the oil filter apart on warm up. You can twist a billet pump shaft too. That alone tells you all you need to know.
I have a TRW 455 like you,60lb pump. It has been running longer, been beat harder than your 455 and still running.(faster too)
80lb pump is out dated, old school thinking and at this point, a wives tale.

15 years with the 80 psi pump (on Butler's recommendation) and original HEI gear. I have run the car as cold as 40 degrees with 10w30 and never had an issue on cold startup but then I have enough sense not to rev a cold engine.

[Formulajones]

People get overly concerned about a lot of nothing.

I've had an 80 lbs. pump in my bird for 25 years and over 100k miles without a single issue, and I run 20-50 in it, with a stock pump shaft . No big deal. lol

I think where someone might get into trouble is running the 20-50 that pours like molasses. But I think you'd have to be doing something really stupid with a cold engine. If you pay attention to additive packages you'll find a few 20-50 brands that pour as good and even better than some 10-30 stuff out there.

Tony Bischoff, one of the best engine builders in the country, used a big pump in dad's engine and that thing will run close to 80 PSI, and it's been really kind to the composite gear on the distributor too for the last 7 years of driving it, and he runs the same 20-50 that Tony recommended.

[scott70]

Ive ran 15w 40 from my race engines to my street engines. Happy medium,,,,All good.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

People get overly concerned about a lot of nothing.

I've had an 80 lbs. pump in my bird for 25 years and over 100k miles without a single issue, and I run 20-50 in it, with a stock pump shaft . No big deal. lol

I think where someone might get into trouble is running the 20-50 that pours like molasses. But I think you'd have to be doing something really stupid with a cold engine. If you pay attention to additive packages you'll find a few 20-50 brands that pour as good and even better than some 10-30 stuff out there.

Tony Bischoff, one of the best engine builders in the country, used a big pump in dad's engine and that thing will run close to 80 PSI, and it's been really kind to the composite gear on the distributor too for the last 7 years of driving it, and he runs the same 20-50 that Tony recommended.

What oil did Tony recommend ? I have some VR1 and Shaeffer,s 20-50 for new engine.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

What oil did Tony recommend ? I have some VR1 and Shaeffer,s 20-50 for new engine.

He's an Amsoil guy, or I should say he was then. I'm not sure if he's still using it or not, but there are a lot of comparable oils I think are just as good.

That Schaefer oil I've read about and it sounds good. Never tried it but I wouldn't be afraid to.

Something dad's engine does with the 20-50 Z-rod, it has over 70 psi oil pressure while cruising but at a hot idle it's around 30-ish after a long highway jaunt. I see it as pretty normal. Thinner oil might bring both of those readings down a pinch to something some here might consider more normal, but I kind of like decent oil pressure at idle with hydraulic roller lifters and sometimes that requires a decent oil pump, so we've just left it as is. Some of that has to do with oil clearances too but for the most part, hot idle is what I pay most attention to.

[25stevem]

My comment in regards to being off the rails was a general one to all of those who have commented in this string with the leanings opinion wise that a certain weight or brand oil was going to help a noisy valvetrain condition.
Even if it helps your still not addressing the root cause of the issue and just masking a problem.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

It`s all good. I did mention QC issues in my earlier post.


I`m going to find out myself soon. I have a new 455 here with Johnson HR lifters. I filled this thing with Valvoline 10w30 full synthetic. It`s coming up on a oil change. I have 3 cases of Valvoline 20w50 VR1 that I intend on using. So, at least on these lifters, I`ll find out.

Guess I`ll have to report back what it does.

Well, I just changed the oil. From 10w30 synthetic to dino 20w50. Cold start. Didn`t even fill the new filter. Quiet as a church mouse. 90 degrees outside. Ran it till 175 degrees coolant. I`ll go for a road trip later and see if it blows up.

[PunchT37]

Just got back from a hot road trip. No noise difference in the lifters. Did notice about a 10# rise in oil pressure. Cruise and idle.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

He's an Amsoil guy, or I should say he was then. I'm not sure if he's still using it or not, but there are a lot of comparable oils I think are just as good.

That Schaefer oil I've read about and it sounds good. Never tried it but I wouldn't be afraid to.

Something dad's engine does with the 20-50 Z-rod, it has over 70 psi oil pressure while cruising but at a hot idle it's around 30-ish after a long highway jaunt. I see it as pretty normal. Thinner oil might bring both of those readings down a pinch to something some here might consider more normal, but I kind of like decent oil pressure at idle with hydraulic roller lifters and sometimes that requires a decent oil pump, so we've just left it as is. Some of that has to do with oil clearances too but for the most part, hot idle is what I pay most attention to.

Yep. Almost the same readings as mine. Used to be 17 at hot idle with 60 cruise. Now, 27 idle [in drive] and 70 cruise. About 32 idle in park, hot.

[68WarDog]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

Yep. Almost the same readings as mine. Used to be 17 at hot idle with 60 cruise. Now, 27 idle [in drive] and 70 cruise. About 32 idle in park, hot.

So where do you think the heavier oil took up the clearance(s) for a quieter engine? Lifter body , lifter bore, or?

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by 68WarDog

So where do you think the heavier oil took up the clearance(s) for a quieter engine? Lifter body , lifter bore, or?

No difference in sound. Just higher oil pressure. Rods and mains are mid to upper 2`s. Don`t remember now. But not .003 and higher, or .002 and lower.

[Jay S]

We ran 20w50 in our bracket car for a lot of years. When we were in the winners circle and had to go round robin the car’s E.T. kept going quicker. For a long time we thought this engine really loves the heat and getting beat on…Then we went to a full synthetic 10w50 and it was dead on consistent when it was heat soaked….things that make you go hmmm.

[i82much]

i have valvetrain noise when fully heat soaked. OF 1.0 and newer version of comp 857 lifters. i have played with preload and different oil weights, doesn't make a difference.

with a stethoscope i cannot isolate the noise to a specific lifter, seems like everything in there is pretty loud. i decided with those high lift lobes that a certain amount of noise was probably normal, and now i hardly notice any more.