[78w72]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

I will say it again, my motor is cleaner than yours on the inside for sure

Why do you assume using trans fluid in an unknown mileage/history engine makes it any cleaner than anyone elses engine ??

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

like school children.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

" For those of you that think I lack the skills you have, better think, it has been 10 years since my novice days started and how many of you have built your own Trans. . I gave myself an "A" for that job. Plus, my motor is still cleaner than most of yours inside by flushing it out with Trans. fluid and if I could I would add an addendum to the Manual depicting so."

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once......does that count? Hail:

You are the one that got me through the Trans. build, Thanks to your exact diagnoses of the original problem and I believe through the entire rebuild, kiss- ass I know, but it's true. If one man can rebuild a Trans. Another can, it took a lot of study by reading the Pontiac Manual throughout. The videos helped and the forum members were helpful. Knowledge from shopping parts at different vendors and reading what they had to say in their Articles proved to be invaluable to me. My Trans. is not only built to tighter tolerances but uses more Bearings than the Factory used. There are a few more steps that I took like upgrading the Pump using Sonnex parts. The Accumulator received an adjustment kit for the future. The B+M rebuild kit had most of the parts necessary for a complete build. The Torque Converter is a new HD Hughes make. The Modulator is new, the one I had must have been damaged in the accident? I know use a larger Truck Trans. oil Pan. Also, I added a Remote Oil filter. All new larger diameter hose lines etc... If I am wrong and it was another person that helped me more, I just don't have the time to read the entire Thread at this time, better to just thank the PY forum for being there for a successful Trans. build 101 by Mike.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Why do you assume using trans fluid in an unknown mileage/history engine makes it any cleaner than anyone else's engine?? :roll eyes:

I learned from a Trans. Mechanic that when he bought a New Vehicle that he first broke in the motor and then he drained his Engine and got 300K miles out of it and when he opened the Block it looked new. Also, added to this treatment, I check/change the Timing Gears and chain, due to past experience.

I never would do that, however when purchasing someone else's junk Vehicle what could it hurt to flush out the unknown debris from over the years. It works for me and I will continue to use this treatment.

Example: My mother took me to buy my father a Ford van that had a wheel chair lift on the side, the motor sounded good to my ear, so we bought it. The first thing I did was the Trans. flush. I put a new oil filter on first and filled the Ford Motor with Trans. fluid and ran it to operating Temp, 1/2 hour approx. Then we filled it with Motor oil and drove Dad around for some time due to his having a stroke and being paralyzed on his left side.

He lived one year after that; I was to paint the Vehicle and sell it to use the money toward the funeral. The man that bought the extra-long/high top van with the Hydraulic lift on the side, was elated that he could use the lift to move his supplies in and out easily. On his way home the Engine Oil light came on and he had to pull into the garage for a repair. Don't you know he called me to tell me that? First of all, we spent another $800 on the AC with dual air system, front and back. Now this guy stole this work horse van for cheap, loaded and working on delivery as best as I could do. The prognosis is the Oil pump needed to be replaced. On further research I learned post sale that Fords are notorious for Oil pump replacement, or so I read.

The fact is Dad got his use out of the van and the new owner had to replace a Mear Oil pump, that's life, no one could have predicted this to happen, no one is at fault either, buyer beware and sold as is!

So, how do I relate to this tale, simple, flushing this Ford Motor using the Trans. fluid, might have bought my family time, that my father desperately needed to drive him to doctors and whatever. I have used this treatment in my 428 ci engine twice now, once on the purchase and recently with the Intake off, I can see all and with the Oil Pan off I can see even more. The Engine is so clean that one could eat off it, "NOT". When I run the Trans. fluid through the Engine, it comes out darker and that is the proof that the fluid goes everywhere, including cleaning out the lifters, all the Motor Oil passages, Bearings, and Journals, etc...

You said: "Why do you assume using trans. fluid in an unknown mileage/history engine makes it any cleaner than anyone else's engine"?

Mikes ans:

I don't really, I am thinking that unless you try my treatment you will never know, will you? I can only state how well it works for myself, the rest is keeping this thread going, Ha...

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Kenth

1111255, is a 1967 400 2BBL transistor ignition distributor.

Starts with 0°-4° @ 1000 rpm, 10°-14° @ 2000 rpm and max 18°-22° @ 4600 rpm´s.

Add to that 6° initial and 20° from vacuum advance starts at 10-12 in/hg and full vacuum advance at 17-19 in/hg.

It makes 36°-40° @ 2000 rpm cruising and 24°-28° @ 4600 rpm at WOT, which I think is somewhat low for a "healthy" 428 with a "041" RAIV camshaft.

Ok, good info. it just occurred to me that your info. contains the formula to rebuild this Dist.

In addition, if you read the attachments at the bottom of my last Thread to you, you will notice that my information in text, that I provided, is the same as what you're saying, as far as my Dist. number being a (TI) "Transistorized Ignition unit". (1111255) is a 1967, 400, 2BBL, (Transistor Ignition Distributor).

I was under the impression that the former owner turned this Dist. into an electronic one, by adding the Magnetic guts and removing the Points, I was incorrect in assuming that?



Don't quote me, from what I have read that the 428 ci Motor likes 38-39 degrees "all in" by 3000 RPM. Some say that on a recurve that I should shoot for "All-in" by 2000-2500 RPM.

Cliff and Tom have provided the other Information that I am going to use when I get to Rebuilding this Dist., in the near future.

Now that I look at the numbers above, you are correct in saying that they are too low for this 428 ci Motor, we can and will repair this Dist. to a much better Curve.

I have Tri-power Carbs. that are up-jetted, "041" Cam, Headers, Dual Exhaust, Air Induction, MSD Ignition, New Oil pump, Johnson Lifters, HD Push rods, Stronger 7/16" Studs for the factory Rockers to ride on. We also installed the splash shields under the Valve covers and rebuilt the Heads. The timing Gears and Chain are new.

[78w72]

But youre making that statement to other members that never commented on or compared the cleanliness of their engine to yours... what does that have to do with this thread?

And just an FYI, but the majority of people on here or commenting in this thread have engines that are rebuilt or they know the history with proper oil changes, so its a safe bet that they are far cleaner than a 50+ year old engine that had trans fluid ran through it.

And another FYI, when using trans fluid to clean a dirty engine, you dont fill it all the way with ATF, you add 1, maybe 2 qts to the oil and run it for a short time. You might want to do some more research on that subject, or just read this from amsoil or other reputable sources out there. There are specific products to flush/clean a dirty engine that are far better than ATF for numerous reasons.... as with most comments on here that is an effort to help, not belittle like "school children."

https://blog.amsoil.com/transmission...tive%20engines.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

You are the one that got me through the Trans. build, Thanks to your exact diagnoses of the original problem and I believe through the entire rebuild, kiss- ass I know, but it's true. If one man can rebuild a Trans. Another can, it took a lot of study by reading the Pontiac Manual throughout. The videos helped and the forum members were helpful.

Knowledge from shopping for parts at different vendors and reading about their products, in their articles, proved to be invaluable to me. My Trans. is not only built to tighter tolerances, but uses more Bearings than the Factory used. For example, we added a Bearing to the bottom of the Case that keeps the Shaft loads from pushing against that area, that could affect the load toward the Engine thrust Bushing. By the way that is why I think that my Harmonic Balancer earned its crack in the accident that caused me to rebuild this TH 400 in the first place. There are a few more steps that I took like upgrading the Pump/Regulator by using Sonnex parts. The Accumulator received an adjustment kit for the future.

The B+M rebuild kit had most of the parts necessary for a complete build. The Torque Converter is a new HD Hughes make. The Modulator is new, the one I had must have been damaged in the accident or was a defective one from new? I know use a larger Truck Trans. oil Pan. Also, I added a Remote Oil filter. All new larger diameter hose lines etc... If I am wrong and it was another person that helped me more, I just don't have the time to read the entire Thread at this time, better to just thank the PY forum for being there for a successful Trans. build 101 by Mike.

Mike forgot to say:

I just remembered that after many attempts at rebuilding the Valve Body, I finally destroyed one of the Bushings that holds a certain number of valves, positioned in a certain sequence within this particular Bushings. Never force A Bushing into a Valve Body because there are specialty tools that can ream or Bore the Valve body hole that houses the Bushings that house the small Valves within. By using Vaseline to insert the Bushings one can do the job correctly.

I should have known that this could happen from reading the Sonnex Information prior. First time for everything, I just did not have the proper tool at the needed time and I did not think that the Bushings were as sensitive as the Valves inside of the Bushing. I certainly did not think that I bent or collapsed the Bushing Aluminum Housing, itself. After all we had the Valve body apart a half a dozen times as we were trying to diagnose the Trans. issues. Also, being that I had to push too hard, on the insertion of the Bushing, means that my roommate had 5 other times to destroy it.

I paid about $70 for a remanufactured one, I had to live with the one that I received, because they lost the one that I originally ordered in the ware house an hour away from my house, we looked all over with the warehouse manager because that was the correct one for my application. But, in the long run I can't notice the difference. The Valve body they gave me had the proper Valves and Bushings for that particular Valve body, it was not PC code, but it works. When you are dealing with 50-year-old parts sometimes you must make certain sacrifices to get back on the road sooner than later. We are experts in R+R the Valve body for sure.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 78w72

But you're making that statement to other members that never commented on or compared the cleanliness of their engine to yours... what does that have to do with this thread?

And just an FYI, but the majority of people on here or commenting in this thread have engines that are rebuilt or they know the history with proper oil changes, so it's a safe bet that they are far cleaner than a 50+ year old engine that had trans fluid ran through it.

And another FYI, when using trans fluid to clean a dirty engine, you don't fill it all the way with ATF, you add 1, maybe 2 qts to the oil and run it for a short time. You might want to do some more research on that subject, or just read this from Amsoil or other reputable sources out there. There are specific products to flush/clean a dirty engine that are far better than ATF for numerous reasons.... as with most comments on here that is an effort to help, not belittle like "school children."

https://blog.amsoil.com/transmission...tive%20engines.

I never knew this product existed, good to know, thanks for the Heads up. I am going to stick with my proven fluid flush. This is my personal choice and it cost less. I can't see any reason not to use Trans. fluid as it has the detergent properties to clean well in side Trans. so why not use it to flush out an Engine. It has been 10 years since I cleaned my 428 ci Motor and it was very clean from proper oil changes every 3 k mile, sometimes in between if a problem occurred. I am guessing because I am too lazy to go through my archives, but I only have Approx. 7,000 miles on this Motor in say 10 years. I only wish that I had learned this solution to debris in Motor sooner. It is good to know that my technique is backed by name brand Amsoil, by the way what is the active ingredients of your product any way, by your opening statements it is like Trans fluid but just diluted. Well, I prefer full strength. No argument here, your way works and so does mine. Good to know that now I have a choice in the future, thanks for the Heads up anyway.

[78w72]

This is not my product, its amsoil's, the link was for information.

"I can't see any reason not to use Trans fluid." Did you read the article?? It gives about 4 or 5 rather important reason to NOT use it. Amsoil does not back your technique, they mentioned it was a DIY thing and there are better products to use. Seafoam used the right way is better than ATF IMO.

For the majority of DIY guys that did/do use ATF as a cleaner, its usually 1-2 qts added to oil, not 100% ATF, there are no lubrication properties in ATF like an engine oil to protect the internals of the engine, that would be the worst thing for any engine regardless of age, but if thats how you insist doing it... carry on.

[tom s]

When ever we had to pickle a engine for any reason like water in the oil we used dsl fluid with a couple qts of engine oil.FWIW,Tom

[East]

Can we get back to the [041] cam?

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by tom s

Whenever we had to pickle an engine for any reason like water in the oil, we used diesel fluid with a couple qts of engine oil. FWIW, Tom

I cleaned the "041" Cam with diesel fluid, because the moderator is watching, the Cam stayed clean longer than using Trans fluid, I am not sure why. Also, I won't be advancing the "041" Cam anytime soon, perhaps after the dist. is functioning to quality standards, I can return to the "041" Cam and move the Cam, say only one notch advanced?

My roommate is doing the Dist. Timing test tonight that Tom indicated that we should do, to see if the timing of this Engine can take as much as 12* BTDC, prior to rebuilding the inside of this dist. The results will be posted tomorrow, thanks for the help, Mikes out for tonight, I have not slept in 24 hours. Sorry if anyone got offended.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 78w72

This is not my product, it's amsoil's, the link was for information.

"I can't see any reason not to use Trans fluid." Did you read the article?? It gives about 4 or 5 rather important reasons to NOT use it. Amsoil does not back your technique, they mentioned it was a DIY thing and there are better products to use. Seafoam used the right way is better than ATF IMO.

For the majority of DIY guys that did/do use ATF as a cleaner, its usually 1-2 qts added to oil, not 100% ATF, there are no lubrication properties in ATF like an engine oil to protect the internals of the engine, that would be the worst thing for any engine regardless of age, but if that's how you insist doing it... carry on.

I will, I do want to say that the Trans. mechanic that turned me on to this idea, said that he ran the Vehicle for 300,000 miles and it looked brand new. I have to ask "why did he have to rebuild the engine then"? However, in his Dream he ran the "041" cam in his Pontiac over a cliff, you know the rest..."goodnight to the Moderator". Mike out.

Thank you for the new and valuable Info. I am allways learning even though I have different opinions at times.

Do you think that I should try moving one notch on the advanced side of the "041" Cam to try and get some advance, other than the 1.5 degrees that Melling built into this "041" Cam, any time after I finish with the Dist. build?

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by tom s

Don’t rebuild it yet! Do as I suggested now and see what you actually have!!Tom

Last night's test and tune in the drive way results:
Once we disconnected the Vacuum advance, we tried 12* BTDC and it started to Knock @ 2250 RPM's.

We stopped and tried a safer Initial @ 9* BTDC, we had a total of 24*, "All- In" @ 2500 rpm. However, at this new setting we experienced some small knocking between 2500-3000 RPM.

Should we go back one degree at a time and test until the knocking is gone?

Here is the curve:
RPM Degrees BTDC HG
(1) 650-700 9* 10"
(2) 1000 12* 16"
(3) 1250 14* 17"
(4) 1500 16* 20"
(5) 1750 18* 22
(6) 2000 20* 23"
(7) 2250 21* 23"
(8) 2500 24* 23"
(9) 3000 24* 23"

Note: The ambient Temps. During the test was 68* F.

(1) The Radiators Fluid Pressure was raised in the Upper Hose caused by the Radiator Cap with the thermostat built into it, being clogged with some type of debris from the coolant over time. We cleaned the rubber under this Cap well and the Cap, plus the hole to the tube to overflow bottle, while we were there. The fluid can flow to the overflow bottle unobstructed now as well. This may very well be the last cooling problem in this Vehicles cooling system.


(2) The Radiator Cap reads 140* F. Tonight, with the large 110 Squirrel Cage Fan blowing across the front of the Engine, the Hood is open in order to both Time the Motor and to meet actual road test air flow conditions, as if we were moving.
(3) The Temp. gauge in the Vehicle @ the I/P slowly rose to 200* and remained there for the Test results. We can subtract 30* F. from that to get a cool 170* F. actual temp. reading at that time.

By the way my "041" Cam is working well in this Motor and I expect good results when I Rebuild my dist., Perhaps I might try to get one Knotch out of my "041" adjustable Cam timing Chain yet? So, if you can consider that in this next move, I would appreciate it. The four Knotch advance timing Chain and Gears are still under the Water pump and timing cover, each one is 2* at the Crank and one degree at the "041" Cam, I figure we should take advantage of at least one of those advance settings if it is going to make a positive result to the overall timing equation.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

I will, I do want to say that the Trans. mechanic that turned me on to this idea, said that he ran the Vehicle for 300,000 miles and it looked brand new. I have to ask "why did he have to rebuild the engine then"? However, in his Dream he ran the "041" cam in his Pontiac over a cliff, you know the rest..."goodnight to the Moderator". Mike out.

Thats not a moderator... we are free to discuss things mentioned in this thread, the cam issue seems to be resolved for now after you changed your cam timing... but the engine should not be pinging at 12° initial while sitting in the driveway with no load, but im sure others will be along to address that...

On your trans fluid cleaning procedure... anyone else ever completely fill an engine with ATF to clean it? Or heard of doing that? What do y'all think pure ATF in an engine does for bearings and other internals?

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Thats not a moderator... we are free to discuss things mentioned in this thread, the cam issue seems to be resolved for now after you changed your cam timing... but the engine should not be pinging at 12° initial while sitting in the driveway with no load, but im sure others will be along to address that...

On your trans fluid cleaning procedure... anyone else ever completely fill an engine with ATF to clean it? Or heard of doing that? What do y'all think pure ATF in an engine does for bearings and other internals?

No, I have never run ATF in an engine. But the Tremec 5 speed in my old Mustang used ATF. So I would believe the bearings would be fine. As far as some getting into the combustion process. If you ever had a vacuum modulator go in many cases the engine was sucking / burning ATF.

Stan

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

No, I have never run ATF in an engine. But the Tremec 5 speed in my old Mustang used ATF. So I would believe the bearings would be fine. As far as some getting into the combustion process. If you ever had a vacuum modulator go in many cases the engine was sucking / burning ATF.

Stan

Are the bearings in a 5 spd transmission the same as bearings in a engine? Im not too familiar with manual trans internals but I dont think they are subject to the same type of forces that require an oil film under pressure to keep moving parts separated... let alone cam/lifter surfaces under extreme pressures and wear or piston to cylinder wall wear etc.

Just curious what others have done or heard about using trans fluid in an engine to help mike understand why its not a good idea, amsoil explains its pretty good about lowering oils viscosity when used at 1-2qts... but completely filling an engine seems very counter productive and just asking for trouble.

[lust4speed]

Reference post 473: In general if you are all-in by 2,500 and you have pinging between 2,500 to 3,000 then normally you would need to slow the curve down and not have full advance in before 3,000 RPM. Now my comment has to be that if you truly only have 24° total advance then that is a decent number to be at in the 2,500 RPM range and the curve shouldn't have to be additionally limited.

Also did you have your vacuum advance hooked up for the test? An aggressive vacuum advance module can also cause mid-range detonation.

Wondering if the GIGO theory applies here and if your timing light (or balancer ring) is reporting true numbers.

[tom s]

Mick,he said it was disc.In the 60 years I have been doing this stuff I have never seen a pontiac engine that showed signs of pre ing or detonation at 24 total degrees of timing with no load.There is more than meets the eyes and ears here IMHO.Tom

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Are the bearings in a 5 speed transmission the same as bearings in a engine? I'm not too familiar with manual trans internals but I don't think they are subject to the same type of forces that require an oil film under pressure to keep moving parts separated... let alone cam/lifter surfaces under extreme pressures and wear or piston to cylinder wall wear etc.

Just curious what others have done or heard about using trans fluid in an engine to help mike understand why it's not a good idea, Amsoil explains its pretty good about lowering oils viscosity when used at 1-2qts... but completely filling an engine seems very counterproductive and just asking for trouble.

I want to make it clear to the new commers to this Thread that I don't run my Engine on Trans. Fluid. I only flush out my Engines for 1/2 an hour from time to time or when I purchase somebody else's junk ride that I know nothing about. Then I inspect the Timing Gear and chain to see how much slack is in the chain in order to get an idea on the milage of the Vehicle, providing it has not been changed before, there are differences between the factory Timing Gear with the Teflon coated sprockets and the aftermarket one that has not been coated.

Yes, the Motors Crank rides on a film of oil between the Journals as well as the "041" Cam in my 428 ci HO Pontiac. Without this film of oil, the Motor will seize up. Now Motor oil that I use is 10-30 Viscosity, I think for argument's sake that ATF is some ware in that Viscosity range? Thus, there is not a problem there.

Oil vs. Trans. fluid, Trans. Fluid has cleaners to keep debris out of the small areas that they have on the interior and exterior, like in the Valve Body. After building mine, that contains a smaller screen, before the Governer Valve to keep it clean so the Trans always shifts as it was designed to.

Motor oil does not contain the same detergents as the Trans., because they don't need them. Sure, the small gap in the Bearings is completely different than the Bearings in an Automatic Transmission. Have you ever seen or built one to know the difference between an Engine Rod/Cam Bearings VS. an AT Trans. Bearing? The Motor Vehicle Bearing rides on a film of Motor oil and they will never touch as long as the oil pressure is present all the time. Now, the Trans. Bearings are spaced throughout the entire Unit and are designed like wheel Bearings; in that they ride on grease and the Needle Bearings spin as the Wheel rotates while in the AT. Trans. the Shaft Ends ride on ATF and the Needle Bearings spin. The Thrust Throughout the Trans. Shaft ends carry the load throughout the entire Trans. and end at the rear of the Case. From there the Thrust goes out the output Shaft to the rear of the Engine to the Thrust Bearing out front, to the Crank Shaft to Harmonic Balancer. This is why I think that my Vehicle Trans. accident that lifted the Trans. , drive train, moved forward and caused the shock wave forward and cracked the Harmonic Balancer, because there was no problem with the HB before the Trans. was lifted up, while moving forward, on a driveway made of asphalt, without pouring the proper cement first.

The Transmission fluid is developed for Trans. only and should be used for that purpose. The Factory told us to use Oil in the Motor, so that is what I do. The Trans. Mechanic that drove his Vehicle for 300,000 miles doing a test, made out well. I don't think that I would ever use his idea, I follow the factory experts all the time. As far as flushing out my Engines that I own, I can and will experiment. For the past 10 years I have been experimenting with keeping the Engine Temps. down. I had a 1981 Camaro Z-28 that I had to stop at the Bridge as a Boat went by to open the Hood to let the under-Hood Heat out. I had add-on AC on that Vehicle, I never did figure out why that was necessary, now I think that is why the factory never installed AC on it to begin with. Of course, the Car came with AC, but the factory knew what add-ons they needed to add for it to work, I didn't.

So, Trans. fluid is slippery, uses detergents and is approx. 10 Viscosity, how could ATF hurt any Motor when flushing for 1/2-hour existing debris? Compared to Amsoil, Seafoam or any bodies flush solution and their perspective ingredients that do the same for more money?

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by tom s

Mike, he said it was disc. In the 60 years I have been doing this stuff I have never seen a Pontiac engine that showed signs of pre- ing or detonation at 24 total degrees of timing with no load. There is more than meets the eyes and ears here IMHO. Tom

We took it out tonight, perhaps a little more info. might help, I could sure use it. Timing is new to me, I read a lot about it, but I have yet to experience its benefits. So far, we attempted advancing the Cam and failed to find a suitable range that we can use productively, we can get back to that later. We have four notches on the adjustable timing Gear to experiment with one day in the future. We went back to zero degrees BTDC @ the Crank adjustable Gear. By the way, this "041" Cam is degreed in properly by using the new Degree Wheel and the proof and method is in this earlier Thread, if you need to look back. We have the Factory Melling "041" Cam with 1-1/2 * advance built into it from Melling and it is installed straight-up.

Last night we did your test and then we went back to Ignition timing @ 6 degrees BTDC.

11/11/23 Test and Tune, 80 degrees F. ambient Temp., 75% Humidity. Road and Highway Test.

(1) Ran 200 degrees F. - 30 = 170 F. After calibrating the I/P water gauge, we get the actual. My I/P water gauge reads higher than the Actual temp.

(2) After moving for about 3 miles the temp. was raised from 170* actual to 220- 30= 190 degrees F. and I turned on the sidekick and the condenser Fans, continued to test drive at that same temp. for 2 more miles, until we stopped at the gas station to put Rec. 89 in the tank. We opened the Hood and there was no Radiant heat coming out, the radiator cap read 175* F. and we fueled up with the Hood up. The upper hose was not super hard anymore as in the recent past prior to cleaning the radiator cap.

(3) On the way back home another 5 miles, I forgot to turn on the sidekick and condenser fans and she went up to 190* actual @ the I/P it was 220* F. We maintained that temp. all the way home. The upper radiator hose was not hard when we opened the hood and the radiator cap read 180* F. actual.

(4) We stayed in the drive way for about 10 min. stopped and turned off, we turned on both the side kick and the condenser fans to cool with the hood open, they are directly attached to 12 volts and fused, "not" going through the Ignition series, purposefully.

(5) We are @ 6 BTDC. initial timing. We hear some slight lifter noise, now that it is hotter and the oil has thinned out. Why?

(6) In Neutral we are @ 1200 RPM and in Drive @ 800 RPM, little high in my opinion, my roommate said, "for the AC reasons".

(7) No AC used on this Test and we did use the Gear Vendors unit.

(8) Second Test run tonight. We headed north on I-95 at 70 MPH for about 20 min. ride, all was good, same back, when we got to Hillsboro Blvd., my main road home, the car turned off at the light. We had to sit in traffic for 15 min. to let it cool. My roommate did not like that, I said take it easy, calm down and direct people around us and don't worry. I told him that we must sit for 15 min. to let the Engine cool before we can re-start this Engine this is not my first rodeo. We are blocking traffic and this is rush hour, I told him to continue to direct the traffic around us calmly, because nothing can be done.

I am not going to move and hit someone in a panic, as in the past. The first thing I did was to turn on the two inner emergency Fans, the trusty Sidekick and Handy Condenser Fan for about 5 min. We waited for the upper radiator hose to get softer and it did, in only 15 min. and the Batt. gets a rest and it started right up again, we were on our way. The temp. was 200* F. at the I/P and an actual 170* F., Because it was not over heated this should "not" have stopped "nor" was it vapor locked. The only thing that I can think of is that the Heads are being broken in and this is the first time we have gone high way speed, since we had the Heads remanufactured. Further Testing to come.

(9) We went home @ 45 MPH to cool down the Engine, we were at an actual 190* F. on the test ride home.

We opened the Hood when we got home and there was no radiant heat under the hood, as in the past.

Why did this Engine get persnickety on us? It can only be because the Vehicle has been off the road for two years and the Heads were just reman., along with rebuilt Carbs. There was a piece of debris in the
Tri-power center Carbs. accelerator pump area, that we found after we rebuilt the Trans. Even though we do all these different projects with this Motor, we just have to get all the smaller recent repairs to work with the over-all existing systems, what a challenge it is like starting all over, this is not the same Engine that I purchased 10 years ago!

If we decide to measure the under-Hood temps. We can use the extra water temp. gauge that I have in stock from the extra parts that came from out of the former owner's warehouse. My roommate may have the Test equipment or he will get it from work.