[Formulajones]

The funny part is the PRW's aren't really any cheaper than the Comp Chrome Molly rockers I posted above. And the aluminum Scorpions cost even more.

Why people are still choosing those over what many perceive as a better quality Comp Chrome Molly rocker at a similar price point amazes me.

With that said, go with Crower if you can. I tried for the current engine I'm doing but they had a 6 or 7 month wait period when I called 4-5 months ago. So I passed on them. Great rockers that I run on 4 engines here, but if they aren't available then they aren't available

[PAUL K]

Folks forget these PRW rocker arms were highly touted on this website about ten years ago. I recall a highly respected member (who seems to enjoy exaggerating a bit) highly recommended these rocker arms and claimed to have "hundreds" in use without a single reported issue.... Then that changed to two sets and both had unseen issues from the git-go.

I'm pretty certain just about all builds have a budget and choices have to be made when taking on a project. I've seen high dollar parts fail just less often than opening price point parts. I also understand that on the Internet it's easy to be the expert play caller and spend other folks money.

Sometimes common sense helps more than opening the check book. I'd never use a $200 rocker arm on an application the should have a $600 rocker. So common sense tells one not to use these rocker arms for a race build. Second I'd never use a $200 rocker arm for an application that requires valve lash. Back when the story changed and these same PRW rocker arms went from resting high on a pedestal around here to being thrown down the hill behind the shop. Someone reported that PRW had made some changes to these rocker arms because of bearing issues. If that's true these rocker arms maybe just fine for a hydraulic flat tappet application but one is just fooling themselves if they think they are buying an $800 quality rocker arm for $200. We've seen this before with the over seas "fluid dampers", ignition systems and just about anything the middle man can get China to copy and someone in the States to buy.

FWIW

[vicgto]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

It was about mid 2015 that Cliff reported the issues with the stainless PRW's. Since then both PRW and their resellers pass the problem off as being resolved. Just wondering when vicgto purchased his PRW rockers? If the purchase was way after this and from a seller that would replenish inventory pretty often, then there is still an on-going issue.

Rockers were purchased summer 2021 from Star Performance Parts

[Tim Corcoran]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I use these for Pontiac when I can't get the Crowers.

https://www.compcams.com/magnum-roll...-65-ratio.html

They aren't the Ultra Pro's but they are still the 8620 chrome molly and have worked fine for me. Better than the knock off stuff and better than aluminum. They even tell you in the listing to make sure Comp is stamped on the bottom of the rocker, there are a bunch of copies out there.

The Comp magnum's sound like a pretty good deal $319.20 for a set of 16.

[punkin]

I went with Crower Enduro Stainless product. Been pretty happy with them so far. Cost a bit more but so far no regrets.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by vicgto

Rockers were purchased summer 2021 from Star Performance Parts

Well I guess that throws the "corrected the problem" out the window

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Well I guess that throws the "corrected the problem" out the window

Yep.

I love the Crower stainless rocker arms, but here's the current problem:
Crower Rocker Arms

(Yeah, I know Butler has them cheaper but I'm going for the effect)

[nas t eh]

Back in 2016-17 I had Butler Performance recommend and supply complete ported EHeads, a Comp Solid roller cam, Comp pin Oiler lifters, pushrods and roller rockers along with a bunch of other stuff.
The rockers are PRW and came without any caution that I might want to go better quality. I see Butler still lists PRW for sale on their website, I like everything I got from Butler except these rockers and sure wish they would have said something in the first place. With what I spent a few hundred more would have been nothing.

I can’t believe good shops still sell these things.

I have only started the motor regularly to keep it fresh and only have about 30 miles on it as the car is not quite on the road at this point.
But those rockers have to go before the car is back on the road. It’s going to be a bit of a bitter pill to swallow calling Butler to get a set of Crowers.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Yep.

I love the Crower stainless rocker arms, but here's the current problem:
Crower Rocker Arms

(Yeah, I know Butler has them cheaper but I'm going for the effect)

My issue with them, if you noticed the estimated delivery time, isn't till December and that's not a guarantee either. The wait is what killed them for me right now. I was told possibly 6-7 months when I called 4-5 months ago, now it says December LOL

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by nas t eh

Back in 2016-17 I had Butler Performance recommend and supply complete ported EHeads, a Comp Solid roller cam, Comp pin Oiler lifters, pushrods and roller rockers along with a bunch of other stuff.
The rockers are PRW and came without any caution that I might want to go better quality. I see Butler still lists PRW for sale on their website, I like everything I got from Butler except these rockers and sure wish they would have said something in the first place. With what I spent a few hundred more would have been nothing.

I can’t believe good shops still sell these things.

I have only started the motor regularly to keep it fresh and only have about 30 miles on it as the car is not quite on the road at this point.
But those rockers have to go before the car is back on the road. It’s going to be a bit of a bitter pill to swallow calling Butler to get a set of Crowers.

Better order them now, the wait is long.........

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Yep.

I love the Crower stainless rocker arms, but here's the current problem:
Crower Rocker Arms

(Yeah, I know Butler has them cheaper but I'm going for the effect)

Just by the Comps in FJs link. 320$ for a quality USA steel rocker is a great deal. Doubt you could hurt them. And they are in stock.
And cheaper than the PRWs.
Just wish they came in 1.5 ratio too.

[nas t eh]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Better order them now, the wait is long.........

Thanks for the push.
I called Butler and asked if they had stock of the 1.5 ratio I need.
They did not but do have 1.6 in stock. That won’t work for my spring package so I asked how long the wait is.

I was told they have 3 sets of 1.5 on order with an expected arrival in 2-3 weeks. So I placed an order for one of those sets. I guess I will find out if it’s a few weeks or a few months.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by nas t eh

Back in 2016-17 I had Butler Performance recommend and supply complete ported EHeads, a Comp Solid roller cam, Comp pin Oiler lifters, pushrods and roller rockers along with a bunch of other stuff.
The rockers are PRW and came without any caution that I might want to go better quality. I see Butler still lists PRW for sale on their website, I like everything I got from Butler except these rockers and sure wish they would have said something in the first place. With what I spent a few hundred more would have been nothing.

I can’t believe good shops still sell these things.

I have only started the motor regularly to keep it fresh and only have about 30 miles on it as the car is not quite on the road at this point.
But those rockers have to go before the car is back on the road. It’s going to be a bit of a bitter pill to swallow calling Butler to get a set of Crowers.

Since the PRW has known problems at this point in time, I would ask Butler for a credit on the original purchase price towards a new, better performing product. They're not going to make any, if much money if they accept your proposal, but buying goodwll can't always be measured in dollars, and cents. In this day and age, having a reputation of treating a customer as they themselves would like to be treated isn't figured in profit, and loss.

Butler is usually pretty well known to working with customers that have a valid concern over defective parts, they do seem concerned to keep their reputation intact. Probably a decade ago, I saw a guy at Norwalk that had a gripe about an aftermarket crank his son purchased, that was resolved without too much fanfare. Having run a few of my own businesses, it's worth swallowing the loss, to keep a good reputation from being ruined.

It takes years of goodwill to build a reputation, but it can be erased over one bad customer experience.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by nas t eh

Thanks for the push.
I called Butler and asked if they had stock of the 1.5 ratio I need.
They did not but do have 1.6 in stock. That won’t work for my spring package so I asked how long the wait is.

I was told they have 3 sets of 1.5 on order with an expected arrival in 2-3 weeks. So I placed an order for one of those sets. I guess I will find out if it’s a few weeks or a few months.

According to manufacture it's estimated December.

It's the "hurry up and wait" syndrome

[tooski]

Well, then I'll be removing the PRW's stainless from my 461. Since the Crower Enduro are not available, and the Comp steels are only 1.65, I'll be going with the Harland Sharp or these: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-19060-16

[nas t eh]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Since the PRW has known problems at this point in time, I would ask Butler for a credit on the original purchase price towards a new, better performing product. They're not going to make any, if much money if they accept your proposal, but buying goodwll can't always be measured in dollars, and cents. In this day and age, having a reputation of treating a customer as they themselves would like to be treated isn't figured in profit, and loss.

Butler is usually pretty well known to working with customers that have a valid concern over defective parts, they do seem concerned to keep their reputation intact. Probably a decade ago, I saw a guy at Norwalk that had a gripe about an aftermarket crank his son purchased, that was resolved without too much fanfare. Having run a few of my own businesses, it's worth swallowing the loss, to keep a good reputation from being ruined.

It takes years of goodwill to build a reputation, but it can be erased over one bad customer experience.

I agree with you and was thinking and hoping for some good will when asked if I could get a discount as I explained to someone at Butler that I didn’t want to run those PRWs in my solid roller cam application. I also asked why they still sold them.

He said that while he has seen failure of them that they are a good rocker in the right application. (Small to medium lift hydraulic roller and FT cams) and that he has a set on one of his own motors.

I didn’t press it or ask to speak to his boss, I know that their price is cheaper than most everyone else and if they get stock in 3 weeks they are faster too. I just want the parts at this point, bitter pill or not.

[grivera]

This ebay seller claims Crower's in stock for $834 - you can contact and verify before buying:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40447678641...Bk9SR9Sd76bVYg

[rolling money pits]

Good grief?! 900…a grand?

[grivera]

Crower’s website price is $840

[nas t eh]

Originally Posted by grivera

This ebay seller claims Crower's in stock for $834 - you can contact and verify before buying:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40447678641...Bk9SR9Sd76bVYg

Does not ship to Canada.