[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by F ROCK

I switched to pertronics about 5 years ago when i couldnt find a decent set of points.
I was in the habit of buying 3 sets of Echlin points so i hopefully find one good set. That stopped working out.
The old echlin points seemed to last a lifetime but the ones i was finding were bad right out of the box.
...And then theres those unipoints or whatever. I've never had a working set of those.
In frustration, i went to the pertronics.
I've had no problems with mine, yet.
Mine is an early version, the first "Igniter" i think.

All the part numbers for Accel points, Napa's real Accel points they sell in their boxes and the good Accel caps and rotors sold at Napa are here.
Accel points have never changed and are as good as they ever have been.
Just bought Napa's 8$ rotor and its the same as Accel. Bought 100$ worth of points and rotors recently.
Accel points will cost you 60 $. Same points at Napa will cost you just over 30$ and have the 32oz spring.
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=865641

[Sirrotica]

People that have trouble with dwell changes have likely the same problems today, as decades ago. They don't lube the rubbing blocks properly when they install new points. You can ruin the point contacts very quickly if there not opening as far as they should.

I used to use mostly Echlin parts back in the day, and they always supplied the capsule of lubricant within the package, as well as a diagram of what side of the rubbing block got grease dependent upon distributor rotation. Use that lube sparingly, too much and it can fling off on the contact points rendering them useless in short order.

The GM spec was 28-32 degrees of dwell, and as dwell increases as gap decreases I would always shoot for 28 degrees when setting it. As the rubbing block wears it increases, but stays within the preferred range for a longer time period.

Another thing that is key in ignition contact point life is keeping the contact points clean when using a feeler gauge to set them. I always wiped the blade off on the inside of my shirt before inserting it into the contact points. Likely a mechanics set of feeler gauges was also used to set solid lifter valve lash at some point, and residual oil will kill points very quickly.

When installing new points it is imperative for long life to make certain the contacts are square with each other and producing maximum contact area. Minimized contact area can lead to high resistance in a small area, quickly burning the contacts. You can bend the arm carefully to get better contact alignment.

Diagram below shows where to use distributor lube when servicing a points style distributor:



These were the basics taught to me by the old timers back then, if you followed these simple rules, the plugs would need replacement long before the points did. This is what makes a professional tune up, over a backyard shade tree tune up. It builds reputations, and a customer base. Also, same as now, cheap parts can bite you in the backside.

Accel used to be a Echlin company, and at the time were some of the best ignition parts on the market. With acquisitions of speed parts companies I have no idea if that is true anymore.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by gto65conv

You collectively confirm my ignition issues.. I switched because I was fed up with points that pitted/failed annually. I've had early model petronics issues, hoped the latest model was finally something more than a Heathkit (for the oldtimers) I'm guessing the coil didn't cause the failure, though I don't know if coil architecture has changed? Thoughts?

My quick solution seems to be purchase another module (tripower junkie) with a 30 mo warranty and hope I don't get stuck waiting 3hrs for AAA on a mild Saturday morning (another issue) Thanks

I've been running NOS AC or Filko points for years and they last a long, long time and never seem to change adjustment. Ebay is your friend. The new off-shore crap, not so much.

[Ram Air IV Jack]

As Cliff R pointed out, nothing wrong with points and it seems many times more reliable than the Chinese junk being sold to replace them. I found the heavy-duty Delco points set and use them in my stock distributor. They work very well and last a long time. Delco made so many points you can find them easily but are becoming more costly. I remember back in the 70's, Mr. Gasket sold a great set of points that showed no bounce past 7000 rpm. Delco made a great distributor that worked very well but don't get them wet. Other than that, extremely reliable.

[mgarblik]

Personally, I have never experienced a Pertronix ignition failure. But I know they do fail, because there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that they leave people stranded and fail hot sometimes. I have personally experienced MSD failures, and other electronic box failures from OE to aftermarket. IMO, it's a risk, benefit puzzle, simple as that. For stock engines and mild performance builds, especially a Pontiac which runs at lower RPM's, it's hard to make a case for needing a "Hotter" ignition. Points are very low risk of failure and provide adequate ignition energy. All the electronic stuff, whether using a box or all integrated is just like a light bulb. They are fantastic, until they are not and your on the phone looking for a tow truck. Higher risk, higher reward. My street car absolutely starts better, warms up more cleanly and the plugs stay cleaner with an MSD than a point ignition. Performance wise, I doubt there would be a difference on the drag strip. But I run the MSD understanding that I might have to install the point ignition distributor I keep in the trunk if it dies on the road some day. Just like keeping a spare light bulb in the closet.

[Formulajones]

Agree with Mgarblik. We have MSD on 3 cars. 2 of them are complete MSD boxes/billet distributor setups. Bought those back 25 years ago when MSD was in Texas. Those have been deadnuts reliable and still going strong today.

On one daily driver I run an MSD box but trigger it with the points ignition. Many benefits to this. One as Mgarblik mentions is that it does keep my plugs much cleaner, especially up here at 5000 feet where the cars tend to run a little richer. The other, since it's a daily driver, reliability is a must, and I trust points more than anything. The beauty of triggering the box with the points is that if the box were to ever fail, I can simply switch a couple wires around on the coil and drive away on the points setup, completely eliminating the box. So far after more than 50,000 miles and 6 years I haven't had to do that.
The other benefit is that now the points will virtually last forever as they are now just a trigger for the box. Not that I've ever had short life spans with points anyway, as the cars that do use them go for many many years without replacement.

To me, triggering an MSD box with the original points distributor is probably one of the best and most reliable setups there is when it comes to wiz bang ignition setups. Otherwise I really just prefer a simple points setup on cars I really have to depend on, as the other daily driver has.

[Sirrotica]

There's a reason that NASCAR teams build their cars with 2 MSD boxes onboard. It's so they can flip a switch if the car starts missing, using a whole different system, except for the trigger portion of the system. If you don't think NASCAR teams think they'll fail, they wouldn't go to all the trouble to build an entire redundant system if they never failed. They're only trying to get 5-600 miles from them too.

If I want an electronic ignition system it will likely be an HEI system, engineered to last 100,000 miles for emission controls. I realize that new modules from the aftermarket aren't considered reliable, but the 50 YO ones used as OEM, do last, you just have to find used OEM, or NOS parts. Downside to HEI is that they don't fit with all intake manifolds.

I've never tried the DUI systems (Davis Unified Ignition) but that also might be another system I would consider.

Another that would be costly, would be a magneto, overkill for a street car, but reliable to a fault.

[jhein]

That is the downside to an HEI system. Sudden failure. Carrying a spare module is a easy fix.

[Formulajones]

Was never an HEI fan. Too big and bulky. Plus module quality starts to come into question in recent years so you still aren't avoiding what everyone here worry's about.

I have run some of the small body HEI distributors in years past with good results, it's just not the route I prefer to go these days on a daily driver.

[Dragncar]

Points never let you down. With MSD your ignition is now as good as anything short of a crank trigger.
Toyota was still using points triggered CD ignition in the 80s. Points last forever doing it that way.
I have had 2 sets of points in my engine built in 1990 and when I changed them it was just "because". No reason, they were fine.

[Richie Hoffman]

Been having problems with the petronix stuff lately

[VCho455]

Time to stop making assumptions. Get a test light. A DC voltmeter also would be nice. Drive the car and when it fails check the voltage at the positive post on the coil while cranking the starter. Be sure the test light is hooked to a good ground on the block or to the negative post on the battery.

With a Pertronix you should be running 12 volts. The ballast wire/resistor should not be used.

If the voltage is low or nonexistent then check it at the firewall connector. If it is bad there then check it at the ignition switch.

If using a test light compare the brightness of the light by touching the positive post of the while using the same ground.

If the voltage at the coil is good then do a spark check at a spark plug by pulling a plug wire off of a spark plug and put a 1/4" x 2" bolt in the plug boot and then rest the boot somewhere on the block where the bolt will sit with about 1/8" gap to the block. Then crank the engine while watching the gap for sparks. If no spark is evident then repeat the test but this time remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and insert the bolt there and set it near the block and crank the engine. This will show if the cap or rotor is causing the problem.

SAFETY MOMENT! When checking for spark this way don't hold the plug wire as there is a real chance you could get shocked. There are low cost spark testers available. I use one like shown in the photo. Also do not do the spark check on or near the carburetor! I personally keep the air cleaner in place when doing this. You can also test the coil on the bench as shown in the video.

If still no spark then test take a test light and put the alligator clip on the negative post. Then while cranking the engine hold the other end of the tester on the positive post of the coil. If the points or their electronic replacement is working correctly the light will flash on and off as the engine is cranked. If the light fails to flash then the points or their electronic replacement or the wiring associated with them is the problem.

https://youtu.be/5kvj_d72WTo

This video gives you a good explanation of coil testing.

https://youtu.be/BU2ySxRUoWo

I hope this helps. One of the nice things about running a Pertronix set up is after you install it take the old parts and put them in a plastic bag with a .015 feeler guage. Then if your Pertronix ever fails you can reinstall the points and get back home.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by Richie Hoffman

Been having problems with the petronix stuff lately

Lately? I've been watching Pertronix units fail regularly for over 15-20 years now.