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#21
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The 4.0 x 3.0 that SBF and SBC use works a whole lot better, and it's going to require a custom crank either way.
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#22
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Since it is a 90 degree v the distance between the 2 sides (hypotenuse). Is the square root of the 2 sides squared and added to each other. Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm Last edited by Stan Weiss; 05-01-2017 at 03:42 PM. |
#23
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Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#24
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Are we never happy with what is out there? Ha ha. You can sleeve it to what ever you want too. BTW. One SHORT DECK left in stock. We will need 4 more orders after this one before they are available again. So if you are think of one, now is time to pull the trigger.
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Bob C. Quickest, Fastest, Best selling Pontiac Aftermarket Block IA II and Tiger Heads Boss Bird Funny Car Best pass to date 08/06/2016 6.027@231.64 Allpontiac Big Chief Aluminum Engine Block http://www.AllPontiac.com |
#25
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Just for information,a true pontiac short deck block(9.2) uses a smaller valley pan.the 301 and the short deck 303 are examples.I used 301 valley pans on both of the 303 short deck blocks I have built.Tom
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#26
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Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#27
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As far as a "pushrod cover" for shortdeck blocks- we need to know the configuration of the curved "dips" in the block's front & rear webs, before talking about how to cover the valley. Are the dips of the normal Pontiac radius, simply moved .728" closer to the cam (1.030" x cos 45 degrees)? Or are they of a larger radius, leaving the base of the valley the normal distance above the cam?
[I've never laid eyes on any shortdeck Pontiac, either by PMD or by AllPontiac]
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Anybody else on this planet campaign a M/T hemi Pontiac for eleven seasons? ... or has built a record breaking DOHC hemi four cylinder Pontiac? ... or has driven a couple laps of Nuerburgring with Tri-Power Pontiac power?(back in 1967) ... or has a Pontiac born the same year as Jim Wangers? (1926} Last edited by Jack Gifford; 05-02-2017 at 01:36 AM. |
#28
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The radius are the same as a normal IA II.
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Bob C. Quickest, Fastest, Best selling Pontiac Aftermarket Block IA II and Tiger Heads Boss Bird Funny Car Best pass to date 08/06/2016 6.027@231.64 Allpontiac Big Chief Aluminum Engine Block http://www.AllPontiac.com |
#29
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The original Pontiac did not and will not in a long block 7" long rod configuration, nor will I spend 20-30 grand to prove what I already know. A short deck 4 x 3 at least has a chance even with the larger main and rod bearings. A custom intake will have to be made, a dry sump system put in, billet crank, custom pistons. While I've finally gotten over the cost of the crank, sleeving a brand new block? Don't think I could stomach even the thought of that. Even though this video is about my friend Mike getting his 383 Corvair hammered by a Porsche at Road Atlanta a couple weeks ago, what I want you to notice is the tach and sound of the 302 SBF in this Mustang filming it. This is T11 at Road Atlanta, we all "short shift" coming over that hill, notice what his short shift RPM is, it's beyond my redline. His redline is over 9000 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1-2M97Ar3c
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#30
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Bob's math is correct if your milling cutter is traversing perpendicular to the 45 degree angle of the intake side of the head. Same result either way. Eric
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"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" noted philosopher Mike Tyson Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. “The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions.” |
#31
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1) WTF did the Porsche driver do that for? I couldn't understand why he shot over to the left. It didn't look like a normal competitive line. Maybe I'm missing something? 2) It looked like the car in the video shifted at 7000 rpm, didn't it? Eric
__________________
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" noted philosopher Mike Tyson Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. “The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions.” |
#32
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For some reason i thought the deck height on the IA short deck blocks was 9.7, but its 9.5??
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#33
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He got 6 months probation, should have been suspended IMO, but Mike parked his car, threw a tarp over it and may not rebuild it. That's the true hard price that gets paid when someone does something stupid in Vintage racing. 2) Yes, he short shifted at 7000 I've been top ended at Sebring by a 302 turning 9500, hurt my ears when he went by.
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#34
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell |
#35
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Actually the 303 shortdeck engine ran good enough to be told not to bring it back.The std deck 303 was a dog.Shaver engine is building the Titus 303 shortdeck RA V to put it together with the Titus car.Tom
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#36
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I believe is wasn't usable as it was very limited numbers and not a production engine like a 302 Ford or Chevy, not that it donkey stomped them.
Even today with all our aftermarket parts, try and build more than a one off vs building a 302 Ford or Chevy. Pontiac aftermarket is big cube drag race oriented, I've reluctantly accepted that.
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#37
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They only made 25 complete engine.I have a pic somewhere with all of them on crates,smog pumps, carbs etc.SCCA said they needed 100.2 1/2 mains,dry sump provision ,filled in lifter bore area like a SBC etc.They also had a 2-4 Xram intake for both a V headed version and a RA IV headed version for 1969.Special tall tach drive dist to clear the 2-4 Xram intakes.Tom
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#38
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Quote:
Thank you for the explanation on why the different methods / numbers produce the same results. Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#39
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Tom Nell and Herb Adams tried to run the 64 Tempest in Road Race Competition and while they were doing ok (performance wise) at Lime Rock before they hurt the engine, they really did not have a chance in that deal. The NASCAR 366 engine would have been a better engine and personally have seen that engine run 8500 rpm many times in the 70s.
Mike leech was doing that RPM with a lot larger stroke engine and was getting the engine to live. The 303 just suffered from Lack of Support by GM and 1st Gen technology in the racing series. By then Donahue and Penske were in Gen 3 and Gen 4 level parts. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#40
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Sorry, Tom. I should have been more clear. The short deck 303 was the one that used RAIV heads (?) not the tunnel port heads. It did perform much better than the std deck 303, but was still at a distinct disadvantage when compared to the DZ 302 and the Boss 302.
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell |
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