[wheneaglesfly]

That is a spare 1963 P/8 Pontiac rear brake drum.
Off a 1963 Grand Prix 9.3 rear I have with 3.23 gears Open non posi diff.

Look like the right brake shoes for front & rear.
I will try to find time this weekend & install them on '63 G.P.

[Goatracer1]

Many years ago the dealership where I worked found out the hard way that just because they look the same brake shoes may have different material in the linings. The dealership put Pontiac linings on a Caddy. Fit fine but wouldn't stop the car quickly. They tried a bunch of stuff before they finally smartened up and put the correct linings on.

[wheneaglesfly]

Originally Posted by Goatracer1

Many years ago the dealership where I worked found out the hard way that just because they look the same brake shoes may have different material in the linings. The dealership put Pontiac linings on a Caddy. Fit fine but wouldn't stop the car quickly. They tried a bunch of stuff before they finally smartened up and put the correct linings on.

Yes.
I can just try the shoes. See how they perform.
Saving my old brake shows for cores to reline eventual.

Real Asbestos brake shoes are hard to find.
The rears I picked up are asbestos lined.
The fronts are modern relined, box is dated 2001 year. Made in the USA.

[Sirrotica]

A quality lining should have at least a FF code imprinted on the edge of the lining. Anything lower in the alphabet such as FE is less desirable, FG is going the right way towards quality.

I'm curious why with all the improvements in brake linings since that car was new, why you'd actually want asbestos containing linings? If your intent on keeping 4 wheel drum brakes, I believe that the ceramic linings I spoke about earlier would be much better to fade resistance than the old school asbestos linings your using. Lots of white knuckle stops with both feet on the brake pedal many years ago, and even pushing as hard as possible on the brake pedal the wheels wouldn't lock up. The next step was the brake fluid was boiling and you might as well open the door and drag your foot to try and stop.

There just was never enough sweep area on those drums to stop well from higher speeds, every year since 57, Pontiac was adding significantly more power under the hood, and more sweep area in the brakes, however the brakes never kept pace with the more displacement and more power almost every model year.

I've driven a bunch of the old drum brake full size Pontiacs tons of miles, and if I was going to be driving one today disc brakes would be the first improvement I'd be looking to change, on the front at the very least. Four wheel discs along with some decent sway bars, front and rear would make a big Pontiac drive so much better. We have the technology today, why put up with 55 YO engineering?

Your car and your choice though......................

[wheneaglesfly]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

A quality lining should have at least a FF code imprinted on the edge of the lining. Anything lower in the alphabet such as FE is less desirable, FG is going the right way towards quality.

I'm curious why with all the improvements in brake linings since that car was new, why you'd actually want asbestos containing linings? If your intent on keeping 4 wheel drum brakes, I believe that the ceramic linings I spoke about earlier would be much better to fade resistance than the old school asbestos linings your using. Lots of white knuckle stops with both feet on the brake pedal many years ago, and even pushing as hard as possible on the brake pedal the wheels wouldn't lock up. The next step was the brake fluid was boiling and you might as well open the door and drag your foot to try and stop.

There just was never enough sweep area on those drums to stop well from higher speeds, every year since 57, Pontiac was adding significantly more power under the hood, and more sweep area in the brakes, however the brakes never kept pace with the more displacement and more power almost every model year.

I've driven a bunch of the old drum brake full size Pontiacs tons of miles, and if I was going to be driving one today disc brakes would be the first improvement I'd be looking to change, on the front at the very least. Four wheel discs along with some decent sway bars, front and rear would make a big Pontiac drive so much better. We have the technology today, why put up with 55 YO engineering?

Your car and your choice though......................

I have never had any issues with Asbestos linings on my 1963 Grand Prix.
I don't have any complaints with the brakes.
4- wheel Disc Wilwoods would be nice or BAER Brakes Or BREMBOS Off a Ferrari or New ZO6 Corvette.
I watched the Corvette guys run out of $ because they bought stupid ShEET.
Not needed.
Then they never drive their car let alone Street Race It.
Just Gay SHEET In my Book.

Pontiac knew what they were doing.
All of Mickey Thompsons cars were built to Drag Race & Set Land Speed Records.
And He did.
Asbestos lined brakes used .

Handling is just fine for me on the 63 Grand Prix.
I can say that.
I have an 87 C4 Corvette convertible.
The chassis is much stronger than the Moon roof coupes.

[Sirrotica]

Just a FYI.
Disc brake conversions, using already available parts from parts stores, and wrecking yards:

Front https://scarebird.com/index.php?rout...&product_id=72

Rear https://scarebird.com/index.php?rout...&product_id=80

From a member right here on these forums, and very reasonably priced.

[wheneaglesfly]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Just a FYI.
Disc brake conversions, using already available parts from parts stores, and wrecking yards:

Front https://scarebird.com/index.php?rout...&product_id=72

Rear https://scarebird.com/index.php?rout...&product_id=80

From a member right here on these forums, and very reasonably priced.

Yes, Thanks.
Scarebird is on Fleabay also.
His Disc Conversion brakes are on my watch list.

I am more interested in Frantz oil filter system before disc brake conversion on my 63 Grand Prix.

[Sirrotica]

Then give Ed Greany a call (951) 897-4153, and he'll set you up with the latest design, for less than the guys in Ohio with the older style filter. He's in CA so you have a 2-3 hour time difference. Great guy to talk to, and knows more about Frantz filters than anyone I've ever talked with. Make sure to tell him Brad Yost, the Frantz dealer from Ohio sent you.

http://www.frantzoil.com/home.html

[8LUG]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Just a FYI.
Disc brake conversions, using already available parts from parts stores, and wrecking yards:

Front https://scarebird.com/index.php?rout...&product_id=72

Rear https://scarebird.com/index.php?rout...&product_id=80

From a member right here on these forums, and very reasonably priced.

Then spend another $1500.00 ON NEW 15" TIRES AND RIMS.(15" rims to clear the calipers) then your factory hubcaps wont. fit and the beat goes on

[mgarblik]

I like the idea of the ceramic drum brake linings. You said they were from Advance Auto Parts. Any particular brand name or product line to ask for? I have been using ceramic matrix disc pads on all my fleet vehicles for a few years. Much less dusting and much quieter than the semi-metallic severe duty pads I was using. Those worked well but would wear a new rotor thinner than the discard thickness with one set of pads. So every pad replacement meant new rotors. The ceramic pads will go 2 sets between rotors. I would expect them to be pretty gentle on the drums as well. Asbestos linings are soft and easy on the drums. If people still insist on using NOS asbestos linings, I would wear a full paint respirator when working on them. Also wet the hardware and backing plates down really well so there is no dusting when working on them. Asbestos was discontinued for a reason. It was a wonderful material for brakes and clutches because it was so soft and had a great coefficient of friction. However, it has killed many people from the long strand dust particles. Use some common sense.

[wheneaglesfly]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I like the idea of the ceramic drum brake linings. You said they were from Advance Auto Parts. Any particular brand name or product line to ask for? I have been using ceramic matrix disc pads on all my fleet vehicles for a few years. Much less dusting and much quieter than the semi-metallic severe duty pads I was using. Those worked well but would wear a new rotor thinner than the discard thickness with one set of pads. So every pad replacement meant new rotors. The ceramic pads will go 2 sets between rotors. I would expect them to be pretty gentle on the drums as well. Asbestos linings are soft and easy on the drums. If people still insist on using NOS asbestos linings, I would wear a full paint respirator when working on them. Also wet the hardware and backing plates down really well so there is no dusting when working on them. Asbestos was discontinued for a reason. It was a wonderful material for brakes and clutches because it was so soft and had a great coefficient of friction. However, it has killed many people from the long strand dust particles. Use some common sense.

I am a Mechanic.
Problem is solved spraying down with CRC Brake cleaner.

[wheneaglesfly]

Originally Posted by 8LUG

Then spend another $1500.00 ON NEW 15" TIRES AND RIMS.(15" rims to clear the calipers) then your factory hubcaps wont. fit and the beat goes on

I have 15" inch Rims & Tires.
Removed from my old 1978 Buick Electra.
5 on 5 bolt pattern was used by Buick till 1978 on B body cars.
The Optional Ralley style Chrome plated rims.

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I'm curious why with all the improvements in brake linings since that car was new, why you'd actually want asbestos containing linings
Your car and your choice though......................

There is virtually no comparison between newer linings and the brown asbestos linings. The asbestos stop FAR better than the newer which contain too much metal. I recently had 2 significant panic stops in my '66 wagon, which I have these in. While I may have smelled like a tractor trailer coming down the Mtn., the brakes never faded from 65-to '0', and it was no problem stopping at all. While Disc is obviously superior, I personally believe the major hullabaloo over drums is due to the "better" more modern linings. It truly does suck trying to panic stop one of these cars with high metal content linings.

And, yes, asbestos is dangerous. Wear a respirator, an do not blow the drums clean.

[wheneaglesfly]

I haven't installed the New Brake Shoes on my 1963 Grand Prix yet.
It was Pretty Hot Yesterday at 94 F.
I worked on my replacement 350TBI chevy Suburban engine from 5-8 pm when temps dropped cooled off.

I like everything OLD.
If I can find Vintage parts I buy them 1st.
Just the way I am.
The '63 Grand Prix does not have to Beat Hellcats Street Racing.
It would be nice too.
Its pretty fast as is now.
The brakes are actually pretty good with old asbestos brake shoes on now.
They are just close to being wore out.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I like the idea of the ceramic drum brake linings. You said they were from Advance Auto Parts. Any particular brand name or product line to ask for? I have been using ceramic matrix disc pads on all my fleet vehicles for a few years. Much less dusting and much quieter than the semi-metallic severe duty pads I was using. Those worked well but would wear a new rotor thinner than the discard thickness with one set of pads. So every pad replacement meant new rotors. The ceramic pads will go 2 sets between rotors. I would expect them to be pretty gentle on the drums as well. Asbestos linings are soft and easy on the drums. If people still insist on using NOS asbestos linings, I would wear a full paint respirator when working on them. Also wet the hardware and backing plates down really well so there is no dusting when working on them. Asbestos was discontinued for a reason. It was a wonderful material for brakes and clutches because it was so soft and had a great coefficient of friction. However, it has killed many people from the long strand dust particles. Use some common sense.

Mike, here's the link To the ceramic linings, Wearever is the brand name:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/w...ear#fragment-3

[mgarblik]

Thanks for the link. When I was first taught how to service brakes in 1968 by an "expert mechanic", the procedure was: 1. remove the wheel. 2. remove the brake drum. 3. use compressed air to blow away all the brake dust and blow out the drums. There was so much asbestos dust in the air you couldn't see your hand in front of your face. The painter at the Pontiac dealer I worked at painted all the cars in lacquer and then later enamel with hardeners and didn't wear a dust mask let alone a respirator. We WERE ALL STUPID!. Wetting everything down with brake clean is what I do also now.

[wheneaglesfly]

The interesting thing about Drum Brakes is that many Foot Brake Drag Racers still use rear drum brakes.
Drum Brakes have more brake holding power than most standard disc brakes on launch if you don't have a trans brake equipped Turbo 400.

[mgarblik]

Yes and rear drum brakes can also be set-up to provide no drag in the rear between the drum and shoes although you will have a slightly lower pedal. Most factory type calipers front or rear have some drag on the rotor. Some believe there is a slight performance advantage there.

[Sirrotica]

When the asbestos dangers associated with brake/clutch linings came out in the mid 70s a good friend of mine worked at a K Mart auto center. K Mart ordered a unit made by a company called Bishman, which essentially was a mobile solvent bath. You put the catch basin under the wheel while the car was on the lift, plugged it in and it pumped solvent through a parts cleaning brush which you used to wash the dust into the Bishman. State of the art at the time, however it was soon discarded to the back of the shop because it took longer to do a brake job, and no one wanted to remove the dirty solvent and replace it.

You have to give K Mart/Fisk credit for thinking about the mechanics health without Gov't intervention, even if the mechanics thought it was a stupid idea, which they did. The Bishman was the butt of many jokes in that store...........

Picture of a brake washer similar to the Bishman:



When I was in Vo Tech in the late 60s we had a shoe arcing machine that just blew all the dust from the grinder into the air in the shop, no dust collection on it at all. I never liked the smell of brake dust so I was never the guy that blew it out with a air hose. Usually just wiped it off with a rag and did the brake job. I figured it was going to get covered in dust as soon as it was driven, the excess dust would spill out of the bottom of the drum.

The Stoddard solvent that mechanics have used to aid in cleaning parts and immersed themselves in isn't all that good for us either. Add to that brake cleaner, carb cleaner, and a host of other solvents we use on a daily basis.

[wheneaglesfly]

Non Asbestos Brake dust is a hazard too Brad.

Thanks for sharing.