[lust4speed]

Last gold in the pan we chased down came from a couple K-liners coming apart.

[67Twistytee]

I don't think its valve guides. I'd be experiencing oil consumption and there's none. It could be interference with the windage tray but I still think it's bearing material. I'll have to wait until I can get a look inside to know for sure. Rockers are stock.

[HWYSTR455]

Do you have a new tomahawk valley pan or a Canton/Milodon oil pan? If so, did you wash the heck out of them? Could just be some of the loose anodizing coming off and/or washing out.

If you're concerned about the thrust bearing, pry the balancer back and forth, see how much play is in it.

Is it an automatic? If so, remove the converter bolts and see if the converter has back & forth free play.

Cut the filter open and post what you find there. Copper isn't gold, and neither is lead/tin/etc, if you get what I'm saying.

.

[gtofreek]

If the pan is off, it's easy enough to pull the thrust cap off and have a look.

[67Twistytee]

I mentioned cutting the filter apart earlier in the thread. It's clean with no flakes or other noticeable debris except for a minimal amount of fine iron dust after running solvent through the pleats and past a coffee filter. No play in the crank after trying to move the balancer. Car is an auto.

I realize it's a guessing game until I can drop the pan and have a look. Still thinking thrust bearing since I have good oil pressure and no material in the filter. I know the camera flash and oil residue make the flakes look more gold than they probably are, but I don't think it's aluminum and it's definitely not magnetic. Valley pan and oil pan are original. The only things I know of that have been replaced on this engine are the original cam, timing chain and water pump.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Hopefully I get it resolved soon.

[HWYSTR455]

My bad, multi-tasking at the moment, and not doing a very good job at it!

I dunno, if it's running good and you're not seeing a psi drop, maybe just monitor closely and go with it.

I'm trying to think of where that would come from and think everything was covered. Anodize, bronze gear, rockers, guides, that's about all I can think of, unless it's an external contamination, like something was actually poured into the engine.

Are pump pickups anodized? Nah, they're natural, right? Maybe an aftermarket valve cover breather?

.

[AG]

I would recommend pulling the motor and determining/verifying the condition. Easier now before a catastrophic failure happens.

[steve25]

May be Cadinum plating off of something, pick up tube, or W tray?

[rtanner]

bro, pull your distributor out before you do anything and check if it has a eaten up bronze gear, if not i lean toward a crane rocker arm? then thrust bearing

[i82much]

Is it the same color on both sides? I had this issue. One side of the flakes was brassy looking and the other side was dark. I think it was from the milodon pan?


You could get an oil analysis.

[jonmachota78]

Dont some timing sets have brass or bronze on the cam gear thrust side that can give off gold glitter? Just a thought since you have done a cam swap.

[meanone]

When your engine was rebuilt were bronze valve spring shims used? Had this problem once when a shop used them in one of my old engines without spring cups. Might pull a valve cover off. There was a lot of material in the heads when it happened to mine.

[pugslyx234]

You know I reread your first post and you say it has 86000 and no debris in filter, I would change oil a couple more times and see if it gets worse, if not then roll with it.

[lust4speed]

Good point, and possibly a clue. If there was nothing in the filter pleats but is seen on top of oil in the drain pan, then it looks like few if any of the particles settled to the bottom of the pan where the pickup would have sucked it up into the filter. Were any of the particles on the bottom of the drain pan or everything floating on top? Not the norm for metals. Must be something glittery that is lighter than oil?

[i82much]

Hey guys - would you agree that if the particles are bearing material that they should be the same color on both sides? I had this situation and one side of the material was gold/bronze in color and the other side was dark, looked kind of like steel. I figured the gold color was plating of some kind?

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by steve25

That pinging more than likely pounded out the Rod bearings ( how many, who knows!) and now they are into the copper !
I would not drive the motor at all, as once things start to go bad enought the stock rods give up in no time!
Many many years ago I had and 455 and in the time span of 4 minutes a light Rod knock ( tic) started and then went to a Jack hammer pounding, and this was at less than 3000 rpm, had I been up over 4500 or not been able to shut it down fast I would have lost the whole motor!

X 2!!

[67Twistytee]

I wasn't the owner of the car when the re-assembly and cam swap took place, so I'm not 100% sure if the timing set has bronze bushings or if he used bronze valve shims. I know the ownership history (this was my parent's car who drove it for the first ~79k) and the engine was very clean when it was re-assembled in 2001. With 86k now, it's only averaged 500 miles/ year since it came out of storage 14 years ago. I've only had it for the last year.

Since the 670 heads are original as are the pistons/cylinder bore, I'm thinking now may be a good time to consider dropping the compression. There's not a lot of miles since the re-assembly, but if I'm seeing evidence of bearing wear or other, I'd prefer to tackle the flake issue and the high compression together (maybe it's related?) rather than waiting. I'll know more when the engine gets pulled and we can look inside.

I didn't see signs of flake floating on top of the oil, they only seemed evident on the bottom of the drain pan. Per earlier in the thread, the filter was very clean when I cut it open which surprised me given what I saw in the bottom of the drain pan, but I also think the camera flash makes it look worse than it probably is.

[JSPONT]

We could guess all day, but the bottom line is if removing the valve cover and distrubutor does not tell you anything, you need to pull the motor and pan. With that much metal in the oil I would do it sooner rather than later.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by i82much

Is it the same color on both sides? I had this issue. One side of the flakes was brassy looking and the other side was dark. I think it was from the milodon pan?


You could get an oil analysis.

For oil analysis to accurate, it has to be performed over a measured length of time to establish a baseline. One test will NOT give you an accurate measure of what is going on inside the engine. Milodon uses cad plating. We've been using cad plated hardware in aviation for decades. I've yet to see it flake off.

[pugslyx234]

Well common sense tells me too pull it, so pull it and let us know!