[jimmy daniel]

Originally Posted by paul s.

For a full weight street car, I like the Performer RPM.

Nothing wrong with a tight LSA cam and manifolds.... circle track racers use that combo all the time and they really need to accelerate coming off the corner. It's too much duration that is the killer. Yes, it's all interrelated but the majority of guys out there are happy running their engine no farther than 5,500 rpm. In that case, 224 degrees is PLENTY of cam for 500hp. Heck, Car Craft made 501hp over a decade ago with a little 230 flat tappet.

I wouldn't be so quick to give up 15hp, that's a slippery slope. Let's say that 15hp is at peak, but you have your valvetrain sorted out so your able to rev a 500-1,000 rpm PAST peak... AND NOT HAVE YOUR POWER AND TORQUE CURVES DROP LIKE A ROCK... I'm PRETTY sure you would notice that.

A mild flat tappet 230 @ .050 camshaft, paired with a ported set of E-heads will make power above 6,000 rpm (I realize some people refuse to believe that but whatever). Now, put a roller in there with the proper valvesprings and you have a recipe for a seriously broad torque curve.

I like this cam http://www.sandovalperformance.com/#...rgalleryv266=3

but I am biased

EDIT: If a guy is going to go drag racing and uses a high stall convertor, then yes, a bigger cam is usually called for.

Looking at that cam, I do like it. I want the choppy idle and broad torque curve. Ive got the other parts to turn 6000 easily.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by jimmy daniel

My compression will be whatever 87cc in a .060 over 455 with flat tops and zero deck. Can anybody tell me what that might be?

I get 10.2:1scr using the calculator available for download here: http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

Karl

[jimmy daniel]

10.2 would be good for a street motor with aluminum heads wouldn't it?

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by jimmy daniel

10.2 would be good for a street motor with aluminum heads wouldn't it?

I wouldn't be scared to go to 10.7:1 with a zero decked engine using a tight quench. Zero decked with flat tops and a fel-pro gasket will provide a .039" quench. That helps keep the chamber cool between strokes and helps the fuel/air mixture stay more atomized, which equates to efficiency and less prone to pinging.
I'm no expert but this is all learned from other people's experience.

Karl

[steve25]

I would not get the heads ported to that flow level and run the duel plane manifold due to the fact that the point of the greatest port area will than be in the head, and you want it to be in the manifold to keep the widest power band possible.
If your hell bent on being able to claim that your heads flow 290, then keep the Torquer II manifold and deal with the drop off in low speed driving torque!
Also take note that even that manifold only flow some 265 CFM@28", so that will need to get reworked also.
With your CID motor pumping out through HP D-port exhaust manifolds, I would not pay for porting work above 270 CFM if you want my 2 cents worth!

[PunchT37]

I run 108 lobe sep. on the street. I have no A/C. I find myself putting the car in neutral at every stop light [auto trans]. It will run in drive but, it`s so damn choppy. It idles much better without the load. It is 246/253 @ 050. So, it`s kinda large for street and 9.7 compress. This is with T2 intake. Don`t be fooled, it will rip the tires apart with the "no low end" single plane manifold. 462 cubes.

If that engine was mine, with A/C, I would go 112 to 114 lobe sep. with no larger than mid 230`s @ 050 intake. I would go 230 or smaller but you wanted a sound. That A/C is gonna add more heat and put more load at idle.

So, Old Faithful on 112, and the RPM manifold if you run the Q-Jet. Holley 850 or 1000HP if you run the T2. Both will RIP for a street car with A/C. Will need a decent converter and 3.23 to 3.55 gear.

[Blued and Painted]

X 2 PunchT37.

[jimmy daniel]

Originally Posted by steve25

I would not get the heads ported to that flow level and run the duel plane manifold due to the fact that the point of the greatest port area will than be in the head, and you want it to be in the manifold to keep the widest power band possible.
If your hell bent on being able to claim that your heads flow 290, then keep the Torquer II manifold and deal with the drop off in low speed driving torque!
Also take note that even that manifold only flow some 265 CFM@28", so that will need to get reworked also.
With your CID motor pumping out through HP D-port exhaust manifolds, I would not pay for porting work above 270 CFM if you want my 2 cents worth!

Good to know. I'm still learning here.

[jimmy daniel]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

I run 108 lobe sep. on the street. I have no A/C. I find myself putting the car in neutral at every stop light [auto trans]. It will run in drive but, it`s so damn choppy. It idles much better without the load. It is 246/253 @ 050. So, it`s kinda large for street and 9.7 compress. This is with T2 intake. Don`t be fooled, it will rip the tires apart with the "no low end" single plane manifold. 462 cubes.

If that engine was mine, with A/C, I would go 112 to 114 lobe sep. with no larger than mid 230`s @ 050 intake. I would go 230 or smaller but you wanted a sound. That A/C is gonna add more heat and put more load at idle.

So, Old Faithful on 112, and the RPM manifold if you run the Q-Jet. Holley 850 or 1000HP if you run the T2. Both will RIP for a street car with A/C. Will need a decent converter and 3.23 to 3.55 gear.

Agreed. Even thou I'm looking for a choppy idle, I don't want the car to be difficult to drive. Old Faithful at 112 may be the cam choice.

[Blued and Painted]

Will some one please post a link to Old Faithful for the new guy.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

Will some one please post a link to Old Faithful for the new guy.
Attachment 321162

You mean this?

http://www.sdperformance.com/viewPro...productID=1816

[paul s.]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

I run 108 lobe sep. on the street. I have no A/C. I find myself putting the car in neutral at every stop light [auto trans]. It will run in drive but, it`s so damn choppy. It idles much better without the load. It is 246/253 @ 050. So, it`s kinda large for street and 9.7 compress. This is with T2 intake. Don`t be fooled, it will rip the tires apart with the "no low end" single plane manifold. 462 cubes.

If that engine was mine, with A/C, I would go 112 to 114 lobe sep. with no larger than mid 230`s @ 050 intake. I would go 230 or smaller but you wanted a sound. That A/C is gonna add more heat and put more load at idle.

So, Old Faithful on 112, and the RPM manifold if you run the Q-Jet. Holley 850 or 1000HP if you run the T2. Both will RIP for a street car with A/C. Will need a decent converter and 3.23 to 3.55 gear.

Not finding fault, but for the sake of conversation:

There is a huge difference between the OVERLAP on a 246/253 @ .050 cam and a 230/242. We're talking 33.5 vs 20... that's more than a 50% increase! I agree that is a decent amount of duration, especially for only 9.7:1 compression. That makes a difference as well. PERSONALLY, with that much duration, I would like to see about another point of compression, octane willing.

As far as the old faithful on a 112, well, I'm seeing 14.5 vs. 20 degrees overlap. That's downright tame.

I don't have a problem with SD's cams in the slightest but if we remember that LSA is a manufacturing tool and DURATION and OVERLAP are the real players here, I believe that may open some eyes to another way of looking at cams.

The aggressiveness of a given lobe makes a difference as well. An aggressive lobe would have more time on the seat creating more vacuum and a better idle, but, that same aggressiveness can lead to problems at 5,200 rpm or so. That ends up being peak for some if they aren't aware of that.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by paul s.

Not finding fault, but for the sake of conversation:

There is a huge difference between the OVERLAP on a 246/253 @ .050 cam and a 230/242. We're talking 33.5 vs 20... that's more than a 50% increase! I agree that is a decent amount of duration, especially for only 9.7:1 compression. That makes a difference as well. PERSONALLY, with that much duration, I would like to see about another point of compression, octane willing.

As far as the old faithful on a 112, well, I'm seeing 14.5 vs. 20 degrees overlap. That's downright tame.

I don't have a problem with SD's cams in the slightest but if we remember that LSA is a manufacturing tool and DURATION and OVERLAP are the real players here, I believe that may open some eyes to another way of looking at cams.

The aggressiveness of a given lobe makes a difference as well. An aggressive lobe would have more time on the seat creating more vacuum and a better idle, but, that same aggressiveness can lead to problems at 5,200 rpm or so. That ends up being peak for some if they aren't aware of that.

I gotcha on that. Overlap is overlap. Depends on the lobes not just lobe sep. I was just thinking about his using A/C and how it will act at low speeds/stoplights. Old Faithful should idle just slightly lopey.

We used a small 206 @ 050 cam on 106 in a stock low compress 400 back in the day. This thing went from 14.60`s to 13,80`s or so with a 3.23 gear in a `78 T/A. So, tight lobe seps. have their place.

[ta man]

http://s668.photobucket.com/user/tam...cs265.mp4.html Try this Old Faithful cold idle with 1.65 Harland Sharpes

[jimmy daniel]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

I run 108 lobe sep. on the street. I have no A/C. I find myself putting the car in neutral at every stop light [auto trans]. It will run in drive but, it`s so damn choppy. It idles much better without the load. It is 246/253 @ 050. So, it`s kinda large for street and 9.7 compress. This is with T2 intake. Don`t be fooled, it will rip the tires apart with the "no low end" single plane manifold. 462 cubes.

If that engine was mine, with A/C, I would go 112 to 114 lobe sep. with no larger than mid 230`s @ 050 intake. I would go 230 or smaller but you wanted a sound. That A/C is gonna add more heat and put more load at idle.

So, Old Faithful on 112, and the RPM manifold if you run the Q-Jet. Holley 850 or 1000HP if you run the T2. Both will RIP for a street car with A/C. Will need a decent converter and 3.23 to 3.55 gear.

I've got 3.23 rear and I have two converters. One is a TCI Streetfighter and the other is Redneck 2500 stall. Neither one of these is probably "perfect" but with whatever I end up going with, I just don't want it to be too loose.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by jimmy daniel

I've got 3.23 rear and I have two converters. One is a TCI Streetfighter and the other is Redneck 2500 stall. Neither one of these is probably "perfect" but with whatever I end up going with, I just don't want it to be too loose.

I`m not sure how either will act but, the TCI is prolly the better quality of the 2.

[CROCIE JR]

I agree with paul s. here. A very agressive hyd. roller can have less overlap at 108 than some others. Put the lobes where they need to be to get the overlap figure where the engine combo needs it.

[CROCIE JR]

Comp lobes (HYD roller)
3196 XER 288/236/162 @.200"/.640" INT
3018 XFI 292/242/165 @.200"/.602" EXH
110 LDA 106 ICL
145 seat/375 open
Compare these .200" numbers with other grinds. These are very agressive lobes and will do what you want. 5500rpm peak and 12" of vac. at idle. Vac adv. to the manifold and mechanical in by 1800rpm. Total timing where Butler tells you. Run the RPM with the spacer.

[Blued and Painted]

We all have a different ideas about what is street-able. If i want to take off and run 8 hours at 75/80 mph, i want something easy'er on the valve train. If i just want to run up and get a freezy-pop, old faithfull sounds good. On converters, I just call cliff and he sends me one.
I've never built an engine based on what it's going to sound like. I could care less as long as it suits my needs.

[jimmy daniel]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

We all have a different ideas about what is street-able. If i want to take off and run 8 hours at 75/80 mph, i want something easy'er on the valve train. If i just want to run up and get a freezy-pop, old faithfull sounds good. On converters, I just call cliff and he sends me one.
I've never built an engine based on what it's going to sound like. I could care less as long as it suits my needs.

Mine will be one of those cars driven to the hamburger joint a couple of times a month. That's why the sound is important to me. I want that aggressive muscle car sound. But in saying that, instill want my combination of parts to be as good as possible. I have a good bottom end and I want to get the best head/ cam/intake /carb combo I can get.