[tempest455]

Most of the cars I'm speaking of were high dollar cars w/ 4 links and lots of chassis work. The one that really comes to mind is a 1,500 HP Nova w/ a big motor and ton of spray.

I don't care if Bickel did the chassis, you are not going to get that kind of power to hook on a street.

[goquick]

Originally Posted by tempest455

Most of the cars I'm speaking of were high dollar cars w/ 4 links and lots of chassis work. The one that really comes to mind is a 1,500 HP Nova w/ a big motor and ton of spray.

I don't care if Bickel did the chassis, you are not going to get that kind of power to hook on a street.

We have in this area alone 5 7 second cars that race on the street. they hook on the street too. In fact the way the one is set up, it hooks harder on the street than at the track. One of these cars is a Bickle car, one (a monza that I used to own)was built by Gene at Gateway Racecars way back,, 1 is a former Tony Christianson (?) 57 chevy, and another was a former 10.5 car. It's all in how the car is set up. I've seen cars that wa not tuned in suspension wise pick up over a 1.5 second e.t. with nothing more than chassis/suspension settings! It happens every night somewhere on the street!

[440GP69]

Good Driver can Drive any Amount of HP on the Street IMHO, You have to know your Limits JMO, Mine should be Real close to 725-750hp And Thats a 535 Mild enough cam No Huge Stall, OD Trans, Street Gears, I run Spools on the Street "always have always will", I Know which way the Car wants to go and at that Power Level I will have a Nicely setup stock Style Susp, "Cage is a Must IMO" Chassis,Tires are Mandatory IMO Just to be as safe as possible, I live Pretty Close to my Work So I expect to drive Mine as Much as Possible-I really Expect to drive anywhere just like my Pick up and I'm Building Mine to do Just That FWIW

[68WarDog]

Originally Posted by Scott Stoneburg

high hp doesnt necessarily mean its gonna be real loud. you can have 350 hp with single chamber flowmasters and its gonna be loud, or bullets for that matter.

You're missing the point Scott. Exhausting 700(NA! NA!)+ rwph requires a certain amount of both intake charge/ exhaust(spent) gases,obviously increasing the CI helps "to a degree". My 68 only makes 375 hp, I could possibly run 3 chamber mufflers or quiet stock components. 1000hp is 1000hp! No stereo going into that be-arch! I would guess decibels in the 200+ range.
For example I tried quieting down my 70 with a full 3" mandrel bent system with 18" goerlic(s/p) mufflers. No performance loss felt with 1/2 to short full throttle bursts. Went to 1/8 mile dragstrip and lost .4. Put old system back on and performance return. IIRC(2 years ago-Exhaust recommendation) I think it was Pdude's site that confirmed my lost performance suspicion.



Tom your exhaust system sounds bitching! But gonna be loud. And forget trying to see 800 hp chassis dyno numbers with anything less.

[tempest455]

Originally Posted by goquick

We have in this area alone 5 7 second cars that race on the street. they hook on the street too. In fact the way the one is set up, it hooks harder on the street than at the track. One of these cars is a Bickle car, one (a monza that I used to own)was built by Gene at Gateway Racecars way back,, 1 is a former Tony Christianson (?) 57 chevy, and another was a former 10.5 car. It's all in how the car is set up. I've seen cars that wa not tuned in suspension wise pick up over a 1.5 second e.t. with nothing more than chassis/suspension settings! It happens every night somewhere on the street!

One of my best freinds is a chassis builder and tuner. Trust me, I'm talking about similar HP cars and you made my point. The guy above is driving a 7 second car. He probably was not driving a 400 HP typical musclecar and started driving a 7 second car the next day. If you are talking about Christian’s old ’57, I've seen that ride many times and it’s very fast and cool as hell.

Yes a car like that "can" be made to hook on the street. However, if you are driving around with that kind of power, my point is, you can blow the tires away at will and it will take a GOOD driver to maintain that on the street. A car like that can kill the tires past the 1/8 mile. How many drivers on here are capable of handling that? I know of only maybe 2-3 people personally that could drive the above, or that I would trust to ride shotgun. The Nova I mentioned above has a Lukovich Pro Stock motor in it w/ spray on top of that. Even w/ the best of a 4 link setting, unless the slicks and the surface are right on the money, it's going to kill the tires with that violent of HP level and you better be a good driver.

Back to the original topic: My point is, someone used to driving a 400 HP car on the street probably would have their hands full driving a 700-800 HP car (or more) on the street. Its done all the time but for the people doing it, it 'aint their first rodeo!

I think you and I are on the same page but trying to say it in a different way.

[SWEETJUDGE]

i didint read all this just the main thread. NA is NUNZI AUTOMOTIVE, he's kinda king on the eastcoast of menacing pontiacs..... & i think recently retired. It all depends on what you consider a street car..... heck there are 8 second daily driven mustangs round here..
the claim to 700 HP is most likely the dyno number. & any exhaust will hurt that number but, you street drive it if ya can, & your race ready with just headers & an extension pipe.
Horsepower is relative to exhaust size...... some people choke there cars & others dont. some people have repair plates & registration is NOT an issue so they can travel wildly..... most performance enthuisiatst want to be bigger better faster......

[bobzdar]

It's all in how you build it, you can put a huge engine in with high flow, lots of duration but if you use a wide lsa it won't sound like a pro stocker (take a look at the cam specs of an ls7 sometime) and will pull to high rpms. Exhaust can be stepped down, you may need 3.5" exhaust out of the headers but you can step it down after the x-pipe to 3", then step it down to 2.5" after the mufflers and you won't lose much, if any, power and it shouldn't be ridiculously loud and have stock looking tailpipes. As the exhaust cools you don't need as wide of a pipe. If you build a race only 750hp engine and try to drive it on the street your results probably won't be good, but if you build the motor with the intention of driving on the street you can make it relatively streetable and not sacrifice much power.

I don't think the engine is that difficult to do, take a 750hp race engine and make a few changes and you have a streetable 700-725hp street engine. It's putting together the chassis to handle it and be safe on the street that will be difficult. Keep in mind that a $600k Ferrari doesn't cost that much because of the 660hp engine in it...These old cars were marginal with the stock high end 400hp motors, bump that to 700hp and they're downright dangerous without a lot of modifications.

I could easily bump the HP in my trans am from the current 400hp to 600+hp with only a set of cylinder heads and a matching camshaft (along with the alum rods and '73 400 block I already have) but I would have to spend double that amount on the chassis to match the hp production, and I already have about the best stock suspension setup pontiac made with some tweaks (polygraphite upgraded ws6, 4 wheel discs with upgraded pads, sfc's etc). To make it stiff enough to be safe you'd need to fully weld in a 10 point cage, upgrade to 4 piston brakes in front, 2 piston in the rear, tubular control arms, panhard rod (or convert to 4 link) and either buy some $400 a piece tires to fit the 15" rims that would handle it (and last maybe 5k miles) or upgrade to 17" rims, heavily upgrade the rest of the drivetrain etc. Now that I think about it it'd be more like 5x the engine cost and I'd end up at double what I've got into the car now...

[PONTIAC DUDE]

If you make enough power you just have to learn to walk it out to that sweet spot and let'er rip.

It's called street racin.

[67 Lamnas]

Hmmmmmm.......

535, SD Perf Edelbrock 345CFM, 246/254 HR on 114LSA, 4/7 swap, .660 lift, TorkerII and a Q-jet.

Tiny 1-7/8" headers to 3-1/2" to the muffs, then 3" to the back.

Shoe-horned into a convertible with power brakes, steering, tilt wheel, cruise control and overdrive.....

I don't think I wanna hook it up!!....Can you say 'twisted frame'??....LOL...it'll be a fun summer....

[70 bird]

If you want quiet and fast turbo is the way to go. 462 at 10psi. 18 deg timing. The exhaust is a 4in downpipe split into dual 3in. with summit turbo mufflers. The exhaust is run all the way out the back 3in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twpsz...eature=related

The video is from last spring while I was dialing the carb in. I have had her up to 15 psi. with timing at 22 deg. using meth/water injection. I hope to get some dyno #'s this spring.

[gto65lvr]

Originally Posted by 67 Lamnas

Hmmmmmm.......

535, SD Perf Edelbrock 345CFM, 246/254 HR on 114LSA, 4/7 swap, .660 lift, TorkerII and a Q-jet.

Tiny 1-7/8" headers to 3-1/2" to the muffs, then 3" to the back.

Shoe-horned into a convertible with power brakes, steering, tilt wheel, cruise control and overdrive.....

I don't think I wanna hook it up!!....Can you say 'twisted frame'??....LOL...it'll be a fun summer....

Is this in the works or has it been dyno'd yet, just curious I am making a couple changes to my 505 with the same heads and changing the cam for NA

[Tom McQueen]

How you get to the power level Im after is extremely relevant to how well it works in street use. A big inch, boosted setup is the only way to go. No monster cams, no sky hi compression, fewer cooling issues, etc. Turbo's...yeah. A plumbing nitemare, and the intercooler required presents big packaging problems. Roots...nothing cooler to look at, but the throttle response borders on dangerous and seeing around one can present problems. And forget parking the car anywhere. With the motor poking thru the hood youre guaranteed some dikhead will try to take something, or just scratch their name on it. I went centrifugal. Plenty of peak power with a more controllable boost curve. With all the major issues addressed on the rolling chassis/body, Im now focusing on the street friendly, big power motor. Most of the parts are already in my shop. As soon as the guy I have gets thru mounting the exhaust system using the mock up block (step 1) I send the CV1's out for CNC work. After that it should come together fairly quickly. Then again, nothing has gone particularly quickly so far.

[70 bird]

Blowers are noisy as heck. lol. here is a clip of my ford, 351w vortech t-trim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdNJfrhaMF8

[Scott Stoneburg]

Originally Posted by 68WarDog

You're missing the point Scott. Exhausting 700(NA! NA!)+ rwph requires a certain amount of both intake charge/ exhaust(spent) gases,obviously increasing the CI helps "to a degree". My 68 only makes 375 hp, I could possibly run 3 chamber mufflers or quiet stock components. 1000hp is 1000hp! No stereo going into that be-arch! I would guess decibels in the 200+ range.
For example I tried quieting down my 70 with a full 3" mandrel bent system with 18" goerlic(s/p) mufflers. No performance loss felt with 1/2 to short full throttle bursts. Went to 1/8 mile dragstrip and lost .4. Put old system back on and performance return. IIRC(2 years ago-Exhaust recommendation) I think it was Pdude's site that confirmed my lost performance suspicion.



Tom your exhaust system sounds bitching! But gonna be loud. And forget trying to see 800 hp chassis dyno numbers with anything less.

i dont think i'm missing the point. i think we have different ideas of what is quiet enough to drive daily. my car doesn't make 700hp but does make around 620-650, with 3" mandrel bent exhaust w/ x-cross over , flowmaster 3 chamber 40 series mufflers and mandrel bent tailpipes over the rear, its quiet enough to have a conversation and hear the radio without it turned up all the way to distortion level. i have however know people who make much lower power levels and have 2 chamber mufflers with exhaust that ends under the seat and its loud enough to rattle the pictures off the wall when started in the garage.

[67 Lamnas]

Originally Posted by gto65lvr

Is this in the works or has it been dyno'd yet, just curious I am making a couple changes to my 505 with the same heads and changing the cam for NA

It's in the works......but a landslide got in the way.....

[440GP69]

Its Over 640hp and 680ft lbs of Torque Eric! SD Has Some Great Idears Lately on the Big Cube High HP street engines!

[mjm421]

Tail pipes will make the biggest difference in noise. Get it out from under the car and out the back. HUGE difference. MIke

[BLK/RD462TA]

Hi GJN, No I really haven't had a chance to try a bigger carb yet. It seems my car spends most of its time off the road or track. What carb worked for you? PB

[Tom McQueen]

Originally Posted by mjm421

Tail pipes will make the biggest difference in noise. Get it out from under the car and out the back. HUGE difference. MIke

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Biggest single improvement you can do. Run full tailpipes. You will be amazed at how much quieter the car will be. Most guys wont believe the difference until they do it to their own car. Even with obnoxiously loud mufflers (flow's) there is a big difference to be had. Change mufflers as well and it just gets better. And make the tailpipes ~1/2" smaller in diameter. Usually doesnt affect the performance and also helps with noise reduction.

[Tom McQueen]

Here's a recent pic of my 'street car' build progress. We got the exhaust passages modified from round to the correct shape to pass the large exhaust pipe Im using. Mufflers are laying on the top of the frame. Once the oval tailpipe passes thru the back of the frame and starts to angle up to go over the rearend, we will convert it to round. Much easier to work with round pipe when you have to make a complex piece. To keep the 70 GTO theme correct, we have made larger split tips for each tailpipe. Looks stock....just bigger.