[GTOGEORGE]

Eric Quote: "Interesting topic.... I love Pro Mod. Assuming IHRA, you would need:

1) several billet blocks with all the best rotating parts

2) several sets of billet heads that would take the maximum allowed valve size (2.400). I'm curious whether the KRE hemi can do this?

3) a championship-caliber blown alcohol tuner (worth several tenths and mandatory for reliability)

4) a championship-caliber clutch & chassis tuner (worth several tenths)

5. best chassis money can buy

6) $500k hardware to get started

7) lots of laps

Part of me says forget it and part of me says....hmmmmmm."


Eric, very good post, I couldn't agree more!



David Holmberg Quote: " 6 bolts per cylinder."

That's a must!



GTO George

[Elarson]

Best chassis money can buy....with one of those swoopy '68 Firebird bodies.

Eric

[Scott Roberts]

The 6 bolts per cylinder has Already been done.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Elarson

Best chassis money can buy....with one of those swoopy '68 Firebird bodies.

Eric

I talked to Vanishing Point about a promod firebird because thats what i really wanted to run. The car rolling with out any electronics is more than I have in my whole combo.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Long way for Pontiac to go.

ADRL:
Record is in the 3.7/3.8's 1/8th mile and

Then you have the no min weight.

http://www.adrl.us/index.php/main/insidepage/drivers/

Hard to get around Billy G in 10.5 REAL low 4's.

Scott. What were your 1/8th mile times and mph? Just curious.

[Scott Roberts]

4.18 at 170

[GTOGEORGE]

Scott,
Was your Funny Car new or used when you bought it. If it was used you shouldn't compare it to a NEW Pro Mod Roller. Apples to apples thing. As for 6 bolts per cylinder what block & what head has this and is it more then just one (1) set up?


Dude,
We know Pontiacs have a way to go.................er, maybe not that's way I started this thread.

GTO George

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

I talked to Vanishing Point about a promod firebird because thats what i really wanted to run. The car rolling with out any electronics is more than I have in my whole combo.

That would be the right way to start. If someone with a deep checkbook wants to try that, I'd be their biggest cheerleader.

Eric

[Jim Zeek]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

We need to get people (other engine builders, Professionals) on board who have already done it ..................Pro Mod engine builders, Alcohol Funny car engine builders and knock heads together and see what comes up with what we have to work with, only then will we take that next BIG step!!


GTO George

We run Pontiacs because we love them. Others run hemis etc because they want to win. Do you think BAE, Alan Johnson, Fulton and the rest of the big builders have the time to take 2 steps back so we can take one step forward? Not trying to be a negative nancy here, just being realistic. Remember, we are 20+ years behind.

[GTOGEORGE]

Zeek Quote: "We run Pontiacs because we love them. Others run hemis etc because they want to win. Do you think BAE, Alan Johnson, Fulton and the rest of the big builders have the time to take 2 steps back so we can take one step forward? Not trying to be a negative nancy here, just being realistic. Remember, we are 20+ years behind."

Gee, why do think we are behind 20+ years!


GTO George

[grnmnstr]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Just for conversation sake - the GTO we built with two turbos has run low 7s - and the run corrected to 6.95 - and that was leaving at 8lb boost and slowly ramping to 15lb - if we put the math to it and keep the boost at a "reasonable level" - our number say it should be good for 6.40 to 6.50s - reliably -- food for though

IMO, Curt has a great combo. The right chassis and twin turbos.

Will it compete with Pro Mods? No way.

Will it be fun to watch? Yes.

Keep an eye on his car. As long as he sneaks up on the tune-up and keeps the head gaskets in place, you should see some reliable, mid 6s out of his combo.

[Scott Roberts]

Mine was used. It was 3 years old when I bought it with very low runs. It cost 1/3 the price of a compairable promod. By that I mean modern setup with the ability to be competetive. Door cars at that level are just plain exspensive. Thats why I have a Funny!

The heads are Tigers and the block is an IA2. They will be avaliable on the solid Tigers aswell as IA2. Dave and I spent alot of time laying it out and making it worked on our engine. So in answer to your question its only on 1 right now. But if you call and order solid Tigers and an IA2, you can have them too George.


Here is a good Pro Mod!

http://www.racingjunk.com/post/14039...-Mod-GTO-.html

[GTOGEORGE]

Scott,
How much boost have you run with the engine? How do you know your set up really works under high Boost (I'm only asking, we all need to cut through the normal Pontiac BS)? The normally head bolt/stud layout only holds so much boost............the heads do lift up, I noticed it a long time ago. we do need more clamping FORCE. A couple years ago I looked into using a stronger grade of head stud, called ARP got some prices, they thought it was a good idea. Never ordered them it was a money thing at the time.

What do your heads flow & what size valves are in them?


GTO George

[Scott Roberts]

Not sure of the actual boost #'s but the blower was 40% over. I'm going to say in the 20's to low 30's somewhere as the blower was not fresh. I didn't want to run a freshly stripped blower on the first time out on a new combo. I guess you are right, i'm not 100% sure the extra bolts will hold big boost #'s but it did take what we through at it on the 3 passes. upon inspection, everything looked perfect. I am optomistic that what we did will hold more than the normal 10 bolt layout of a Pontiac. I have 9/16 and 1/2 bolt in the heads. 18 per side.
As far as valves, 2.25 and 1.80 titanium valves. Head flow (which doesn't mean a whole lot) was good. 402 CFM at .600 lift (Uncorrected) and caried up to .950. The low and mid lift was great.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Zeek Quote: "We run Pontiacs because we love them. Others run hemis etc because they want to win. Do you think BAE, Alan Johnson, Fulton and the rest of the big builders have the time to take 2 steps back so we can take one step forward? Not trying to be a negative nancy here, just being realistic. Remember, we are 20+ years behind."

Gee, why do think we are behind 20+ years!


GTO George

Maybe because the kind of forward thinking KRE is doing now with their WARP-6 head was done by BAE, Johnson, Fulton, and like minded big builders 20 years ago on the Hemi?

[GTOGEORGE]

Brian,
The reason for us being 20+ years behind is racers/engine builders keep saying it can't be done..........we don't need that...........it will cost too much money.........bla, bla, bla.
KRE (this is not a KRE thing) took a big step with the Warp 6 heads, not only do they have very HUGE ports KRE also "separated" the middle exhaust valves (very important). Now we have other racers/engine builders stepping up with new and exciting stuff (AllPontiac 18 head bolts/studs per head for example) for US Pontiac racers. Leaps and bounds.............brian, leaps and bounds!


GTO George

[John Langer]

A sbf has 10 head bolts and in turbo applications makes like 2,000hp and doesn't have the head problems that a Pontiac has. So my question is this and everyone put their thinking caps on. Why are Pontiacs lifting heads? Is it that we dont have enough head bolts? Is it that we can't get enough clamping force with a 1/2" stud? Is it head gasket availibility? Or is it something else?

[GTOGEORGE]

Langer,
Maybe it's the bore spacing our (Pontiac) head bolts/stud are father apart.


GTO George

[John Langer]

Is it pressure that is causing the heads to lift or heat generated by the siamese exhaust ports that causes the head to lift??

[David Holmberg]

Excellent thread!