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zbuickman · 03-18-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Probably not many general production Pontiacs could be verified as 1 of 1.

Any desirable bodystyle that breaks down to under 1,000 by engine/tranny is very rare enough. That's a 20 per state average. For some folks it isn't - so they try to throw in colors and options in the mix. If all numbers were known and verified, most of the '1 of 1's would be less than desirable oddballs in color-blind combinations. Most times the cars claimed to be - or possibly to be 1 of 1 - need all the help they can get.

how about a marimba red 65' vert w/ white top w/ parcment int w/ black door tops and a pilars. a build date of 08A X and acording to the P.O.P. 421HO auto. all is correct but I beileve the 421 to be wrong.(never avail if it was it would be 1 of none) I beileve it is suposed to be a 389 4bbl auto. what kind of a mess up or typo would be acceptable as a 1 of 1

johnta1 · 03-18-2007, 12:29 PM

The engine in it now isn't the original?

What's the PHS say?

zbuickman · 03-18-2007, 02:54 PM

nope. @89' I pushed the original engine on the iron scrap pile. I kept the heads intake and carb. air cleaner. 77 heads 4bbl pancake air cleaner. I put in a 67 400 with my valve covers. Can we guess what happened to them (yep dented) it was a 389. My step father has had several 65' GTO's and knew the engine codes then. It was not YK as it says on the POP. No. I dont have a PHS on it. I dont see why I need one Its a typo as that engine was not offered in an a-body. and surely not a convert w/ clock dash, 2 spd auto, 3:23 gears and a 15" 3-core rad. its just a typo. some day if I have money to blow ill get the phs But right now it doesnt mean alot. heres post with pics
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=494904

CDN2PLS2 · 03-18-2007, 06:48 PM

Mine's one of seven.1972 GTO POST 455HO Auto.Probably the only one in Colour combo. Monarch Yellow,White vinyl,Green interior,Black side stripe!

442w30 · 03-19-2007, 10:07 AM

I posted in the other thread too, but why not post my opinion here and see what comes from my fingers this time?

"1 of 1" is something that should only be mentioned if there's proof. When it comes to Pontiacs, there isn't much proof to be found.

Someone mentioned the '71 Judge ragtops . . . as all of them are known, it can be seen that some of them have been trimmed in similar manners. But I feel that making claims about a car like this being 1 of 1 diminishes the fact that the car is really 1 of 17 - truly a rare car. Anything beyond that smacks of puffery.

carmak · 03-19-2007, 04:06 PM

Rarity only matters for cars that are desireable in the first place, people who desire to be unique or prople who think that rarity will make a car of lesser desireability more desireable.

55-57 Chevys and 64-66 Mustangs were sold bt the hundreds of thousands. The FI chevys and the GT350 Mustangs comand a premum but ALL 55-57 Chevys and 64-66 Mustangs (even the 4dr chevys) are desireable and therefore valuable.

I have a 66 Chrysler Newport 4drHT (the base Chrysler model) optioned with power windows, antenna, AM/FM, Cruise, AC, trunk release, cloth interior, full vinyl top and the export low compresstion 383 2bl (so the original owner could take it to Mexico). It may be 1 of 1 with those options but so what. I enjoy the car a ton but it's worth nothing because the desireability (from the general public/car comunity) isn't there.

True desireability and rarity do result in very high value (Judge vert for example). For the vast majority of collectable cars once you get past engine and trans options you are pushing it.

Color in general matters more than the rarity of a given color. Would rather have the only gold/gold 69 RV4 GTO vert or more common black or red or blue 69 RV4 GTO vert? (sorry to pick on gold)

I really like unique cars but I am so frustrated with people who confuse rarity with worth.

Carmak

Lloyd-TX · 03-19-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDN2PLS2

Mine's one of seven.1972 GTO POST 455HO Auto.Probably the only one in Colour combo. Monarch Yellow,White vinyl,Green interior,Black side stripe!

Nice!

BTW, have the Grippos appraised yours? (LOL)

I still can't believe the $125K M&M appraisal on that black post WW5 in HPP! Did he ever sell that car? I highly doubt it with that appraisal number in his head.

I believe my WW5 car is one of a VERY few, considering the color combination. However, as very well stated by carmak, rarity does NOT automatically equate to desirability.

Great thread, BTW.

unruhjonny · 03-21-2007, 12:12 AM

I'm with the concensus that the key items to discern true rarity are model/engine/transmission...

Since (as far as I know) normally colours were not recorded information, I would think that true 1 of 1 cars which receive that status based on colour would have to be cars with colours that were not supposed to be ordered;
When speaking of examples like this the ones that come to mind to me are the black, red, or different shade of blue early Trans Am's...

I know that its considered a "Dodge boy" thing to award rarity when including all options...
like it's been said earlier, the cars could all be custom ordered back then, so in essence pretty much every car could be a 1 of 1...

442w30 · 03-21-2007, 12:35 AM

Actually, the Mopar guys cannot add all options to deduce rarity. Options must be seen on an individual basis; they cannot be combined to figure out a number. For example, they made about 266 Challengers in pink in 1970, but the number of Challenger T/As in pink cannot be determined because you cannot combine the options of color and an item such as the Trans Am package. If you ever see anyone doing that (for example, the number that floats around is 28, even though there's over 50 documented cars in the registry), he either has no clue or he's trying to pull a fast one.

When it comes to GTOs, I'll take engine/tranny. Anything else, like color, should be a seperate statistic and by no means should someone estimate how many Mint Turquoise Judges were built.

mmarx · 03-21-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDN2PLS2

Mine's one of seven.1972 GTO POST 455HO Auto.Probably the only one in Colour combo. Monarch Yellow,White vinyl,Green interior,Black side stripe!

What a color combo...your probably right, no twin to this car.

Any pics you care to share?

Mike

CDN2PLS2 · 03-21-2007, 02:34 PM

I posted one a long time ago,maybe you could find it with a search.I'd SURE like to know what the colours were on the other HO Post cars.

unruhjonny · 03-21-2007, 02:55 PM

442W30;
Thanks for the "heads up"...
By no menas am I in any Mopar circles... but I used to be around clooectors, who would make fun of just about every mopar owner for doing stuff like saying, well its 1 of 1 becasue of blah blah blah...

I'm certain you know what I mean!

I have only really heard of or seen Mopar boys doing this.... hense my last post. Hopefully my post didn't irritate anyone!

442w30 · 03-21-2007, 04:05 PM

Oh, no problem at all! I was merely pointing it out because it pertains to the Pontiac hobby too. A little bit of information can get people in a lot of trouble! There's so much BS in the Mopar world and rumors exist that have been put to rest long ago. I want to learn new information, and if people are spreading BS or are misinformed, what good does it do for me, much less the hobby?

When I was at Barrett-Jackson, there was a 'Cuda in Sassy Grass Green with "chartreuse" strobe stripes. It used to be in Harold Sullivan's collection. The owner's sign claimed it was the only one built - I have the production sheets, and this mid-year stripe was not tallied - but I know of one other one (and there could be more out there.) The owner's brother didn't like me telling him that I knew of another one. He stood firm with his claim, not making eye contact, and then walked away. I wasn't aggressive at all, but I also was using my knowledge as a way to whip it out. If he reacted angrily, that is his problem because I wasn't calling a liar - I was merely discussing the car and saying, "Hey! I know of another one!" A cool guy would have said, "Wow! Another one! Now there's two!" but that wasn't the case. People like that aren't interested in the hobby - they're only interested in themselves and the money that the cars bring. :twocents:

njsteve · 03-21-2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I'm with the concensus that the key items to discern true rarity are model/engine/transmission...

I know that its considered a "Dodge boy" thing to award rarity when including all options...
like it's been said earlier, the cars could all be custom ordered back then, so in essence pretty much every car could be a 1 of 1...

Here's my "Dodge boy one of one". 1970 Charger RT/SE 426 Hemi four speed. Total production 15 (10 four speeds, 5 automatics) This is the only red one produced. I've had her over 20 years and she has 16,000 miles. She sits in the garage as I work diligently on my 72 T/A!

hakansan · 03-21-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njsteve

Here's my "Dodge boy one of one". 1970 Charger RT/SE 426 Hemi four speed. Total production 15 (10 four speeds, 5 automatics) This is the only red one produced. I've had her over 20 years and she has 16,000 miles. She sits in the garage as I work diligently on my 72 T/A!

Congrats! That is my favorite non Pontiac car.... and with that engine!! Boy Your lucky!
Håkan

442w30 · 03-21-2007, 11:19 PM

Hey, Steve, nice to see ya stop by here . . . I think we've had this conversation before, but you'll have to refresh my memory.

As the Hemi was an option, and as the SE package was an option, isn't it true that the figures you've quoted can't be statistically significant? And, assuming these 15 cars were built, not all of 'em survive, so it can't be determined that only one red example was built?

You should post a pic. As a fan of '69s, I still drool after yours. And no vinyl top!

njsteve · 03-22-2007, 06:19 AM

All 15 survive in various forms. From just broadcast sheets to full cars. An R/T-SE is a seperate car. Kind of like a Rally Sport Z/28. It was the performance model (R/T) and the Luxury model (SE) ordered on the same car. As for the hemi. if you consider a RA IV a seperate model of a GTO Judge, I would put this is the same sub category.

70ra455 · 03-22-2007, 10:04 AM

Hey Steve ... awesome car! Is that the one I've seen down at Somerville on occassion and maybe Flemington? I used to attend Somerville all the time with my '65 Bonnie Convertible and then my '70 Goat Convertible until I moved to Michigan last summer.

442w30 · 03-22-2007, 10:13 AM

Hi, Steve . . . but you haven't addressed the issue that I am bringing up.

The VIN of an R/T SE is the same as an R/T. Therefore, one can figure out the total Hemi figures, or one can figure out the SE figures, but both options cannot be determined.

Using a Pontiac example is not a good one because we don't have the figures . .. well, I guess we have Judge and engine figures, right? Both were options. But someone went through the invoices to figure these things out. Mopars don't have the luxury of these invoices, so it can't be done.

So what gives? Am I missing something?

unruhjonny · 03-23-2007, 06:59 PM

Steve;
From all appearances your car does not fall into "dodge boy" theme I was refering to... I was more over suggesting for the type of person who says something along these lines of:
"My car is the only Sublime-Lime, 318/2bbl, 4 speed, white vinyl top, wire hubcap, coupe with an optional tissue dispenser"

If your car is like 442 has asked, either a seperate model determined by vin code, or similar to a trim level like the "SE" package for the 1976-1981 Trans Am's, it sounds to be a unique car...
Were definatly not talking about the addition of several variables (in this case options) to "create" a 1/1 car...

I know that some trim type packages were recorded for Pontiacs, the most obvious ones that come to mind are the GTO Judges, or SE TA's (1976 Pontiac 50th Ann., 1977-1981 Black with gold striping, or the 1978 "Y88" Gold with black striping, and there has even been recording of coupe versus T-roof cars for these!), but others would be, the 1977-1978 Skybird, 1978-1979 Redbird, or 1980 Yellowbird...
Am I correct in understanding that your car is like one of these late 1970's Firebird examples?

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