[Bruce Maichle]

The name of the guy with the grand prix was Tom Herman,I met him at Chicago very nice guy ,but he never made to any NMCA races because the motor wouldnt stay together,and Im sure that was an IA block and wide ports,and nos.Let me just say after the money I have spent you cannot make 900 hp or more with a stock block and edelbrocks without some kind of power adder, and at much lower power I broke 5 blocks so I have a tough time believing that they lived at 1500 hp.

[This message has been edited by Bruce Maichle (edited 10-13-2001).]

[Goatman]

Bruce, I had a hard time believing it as well, but I've been talking with the guy who sold Marty that block and he says it NEVER broke. Other parts failed, but the block stayed together. This guy has helped guys like Jimmy Keen achieve their championship seasons and he is a boost engineer. He even has his own piston design with Wiesco.

Boosted motors are strange birds, they aren't under the constant stress like high compresssion motors are all the time, this aids in longevity.....big time. It can be done, it just takes the right parts.

[boykoman]

Ok but arent the high horsepower turbo motors of Martys all 400 blocks?I think the person before in the previous posts was refering to the 455 weak lifter bore stock block under high horsepower.But Ive heard that the 400 does hold up to high horse power loads.Maybe Im wrong just my 2 cents.

[John Bailey (GTOKID)]

KO I think my stock block edl head motor will see 680-700hp. hope to get into the 9;s I think i can..I think i can... BTW 368 cfm at 700 lift 249 intake cc 264 on exh 52cc chambers

[Goatman]

Boyko, the 400 has the same lifter galley as the 455 type motors. Its not that. The combination of a relatively small crank and a thick main webbing area (on certain year blocks)are two reasons why they last in some high HP applications.

Big cranks and high RPM's usually don't work well together. Its just too much for a stock block to take. That's why you see cracks in the main webbing, or worse.

[Scott Misus]

Bruce:

Is Neal Owens still the fastest Pontiac in that class?

[Bruce Maichle]

yes he is

[Torment]

My supercharged 2bolt stock block 455 shows 900hp at the rear tire, give or take a few. Been running for 3 years now with no problems. John L IC motors never pull the air through, it's always pushed. Just a matter of how many atmospheres are pushing.

[KO]

I never mentioned superchargers or turbochargers. Turbocharged Formula 1 engines made 1200 HP with 90 cubic inches 20 years ago. 1600 HP with 400+ inches: BFD. Hondas are running 7s with turbos and 100 inces, I just helped to put together a Neon that runs 9.0s with a turbo and 150 cubic inches and you could drive it every day to work it's so docile. Tom Herman had an IA block plus EFI and nitrous. He ran 8.80s with E heads and nitrous..only 2 tenths faster than Bruce or Neal. Anyone who truly races a Pontiac would appreciate the value of an IA block. #1 qualifiers at the local test n tune don't count. How many stock blocks with $1000 worth of machine work, concrete, lifter braces, billet main caps does it takes to replace 1 blocksthat is PROVEN to last three seasons at 900+ HP. Arm chair quarterbacks love to bash Wenzler heads, it's a fact you have to have them to achieve anything that is truly competitive to the point that NMCA and the new organazation, PRO racers/http;//www.fasteststreetcar.com now have Pontiac V-8 s at the same weight break as a BBC, Mopar or Ford...Olds and Buick combos are allowed a 200# weight break (so much for how good Olds Batten heads are). Congratulations to Bruce M..but I doesnt count, Cecil is downhill.

[Goatman]

"1600 HP with 400+ inches: BFD"

Really, lets see you do it. With ANY Pontiac.

Dodge Neon: BFD.

Just as much money spent on custom half shafts and trannies as an IA block. AND it's still a Neon.

Test 'N' tune is still making a pass, it counts. Bench racing, that doesn't.

Marty P.'s block lasted more than three seasons. WITH countless dyno pulls as well.

"Arm chair quarterbacks love to bash Wenzler heads, it's a fact you have to have them to achieve anything that is truly competitive"

Really, I hope somebody told Rodney Butler that. 1801HP E-heads. Guess he forgot.

"Congratulations to Bruce M..but I(t) doesn't count, Cecil is downhill."

Really, let's see you do it. In something other than a Neon.

[This message has been edited by Goatman (edited 10-13-2001).]

[Scott Misus]

Karl:

On the surface, Tom Herman's tubbed, 4 link GP running 8.80's vs Neal's 8.90's is a startling comparison.

However, you're forgetting that Neal's had over 10 years to get to where he is, versus Tom's one year. Remember, Tom threw in the towel after grenading a second motor.

This is more likely a commentary on Neal's persistence and mechanical aptitude vs. Tom's, than it is car vs. car.

[Goatman]

Scott, you speak the truth. They have two VERY different cars for two VERY different classes.

Maybe the "best" way to fly on compression is with Big Cheifs, I don't know. They certainly do flow alot of air. But to say that there is no other way, is just rediculous. Maybe someone hasn't found the way yet, but that doesn't automatically disqualify the head. That's all I was getting at.

[Scott Misus]

Gloatman:

You're correct. Too bad that the Big Chiefs which you speak of (Made by Dart; Troy, MI)arent' allowed in any Q16 races.

[Goatman]

Why is that?

[David Holmberg]

'Cause "Big Chiefs" are for BBC's. Super Chiefs are for a Pontiac Block...
LOL!

[Goatman]

Too many Chiefs, not enough indians! D'oh!

[KO]

I think Bruce got his motor around May. 9.0s in a little over 6 months, Bruce had a 12 second Camaro ten years ago.

More turbo tidbits:

NMCA weight beaks allow 707 cubic inches with nitrous versus 447 cubic inches with a turbo. Bob Reiger ran 6.70s with a 380 cubic inch small block Chevy making almost 2000HP.

I never included turbo or supercharged combinations in my first statement. I was referring to N/A.

At 30PSI it doesnt matter how bad a head is.