[slowbird]

Since it was mentioned here I thought I would post some pics of a 980 head that was done back in the 60s with the divider wall cut out. A friend sent me the pics.

[69Goat1]

Originally Posted by pro-tour79

there is nothing new about this been done on Chevies for years as mentioned above nothing to do with "pulling" air from the othe port IMHO if my mashine shop tolled me that line of BS I would seek a qualified machine shop, a sleeve SHOULD be installed in the hole it needs to be drilled from the top in a mill and stopped short of going through the bottom so the sleeve can be pressed in and will dead stop at the bottom without moving from the head bolt being torqued dow and for insurance ad a small amount of sealer under the bolt head to keep any oil from sucking in.

Pro-tour79 - there are others out there running them like this with great success as P-body, slowbird, and brian Baker have said. The way mine are ported you can tell this is the finished product as they are absolutely concentric in every one instead of just porting each bolt hole out. This is what the head porter had in mind when he did it you can tell...

Now with the correct headgasket and a bit of sealer around the head stud washers oil use should be a non-issue and as far as strength you still have the entire other 2 sides of the blt hole that is solid aluminum all the way top to bottom so I don't see clamping force as being any kind of an issue.

I think I am bgoing to run my roller engine with my old 324 cfm E's and then do a midyear change to these and do a little test to see the difference. If it slows up, smokes, and runs bad then I was told but if it doesn't...

Funny thing is I bought these as they were fairly inexpensive and I was making a dished piston budget flat solid engine for my Black 69 GTO since I pulled the built motor and put it in my Green 69 GTO. May have my old "Built" E-heads on the flat solid engine and these "Experimental" heads on the Roller motor by mid-summer

[screamingchief]

Mr P-Body:
Moroso has offered special studs from small blocks for many years, to allow this. The stud is very narrow in the port area, to allow maximum cross-section. "Sleeving" the hole is done by superstitious builders, not understanding the concept.

Brian Baker:
I've read about SBC heads done like this, with no tube used, just the head bolt exposed to the port, with great success.

69Goat1:
He is looking into some of those bolts P-body mentioned...

Taff2:
Wouldn't grinding the bolt boss away like this weaken the clamping force at this area? Not a problem with a SBC maybe,but on a Pontiac?

Those would be the port intruders I mentioned earlier.

selfracing.com/portintruder

Self racing supplies these to Brodix.

Other source may indeed offer them,as I'm not sure of all the sources for them,but I will say I dont recall moroso offering these,but that does'nt mean they dont,I've just never made a mental note to that affect about seening them listed in their catalogs or such.

Pics below are from the hyperlinked website (self racing),they show how these work,the site explains them better.

HTH.

[Brian Baker]

I'm wondering if those 980 heads were done like that to work with a blower? Pontiac blower intakes from that era had siamesed ports.

[69Goat1]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

Those would be the port intruders I mentioned earlier.

selfracing.com/portintruder

Self racing supplies these to Brodix.

Other source may indeed offer them,as I'm not sure of all the sources for them,but I will say I dont recall moroso offering these,but that does'nt mean they dont,I've just never made a mental note to that affect about seening them listed in their catalogs or such.

Pics below are from the hyperlinked website (self racing),they show how these work,the site explains them better.

HTH.

Bret - the bolts I am talking of are just thinner above the bottom threads and head - they allow the air to flow around the bolt on it's way into the other port - not designed to stop the hole up but let air around it if that makes any sense - wish I had these heads here today I would take a pic to try and explain it better...

[J.C.you]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Since it was mentioned here I thought I would post some pics of a 980 head that was done back in the 60s with the divider wall cut out. A friend sent me the pics.

any info on how they ran and what application? flow and velocity numbers?

[slowbird]

I have no info on them except I believe they came off of a blower motor from the 60s.

[Skip Fix]

Pontiac blower intakes from that era had siamesed ports.
__________________
So did those Turbo 301 Heads

[pro-tour79]

Originally Posted by 69Goat1

Bret - the bolts I am talking of are just thinner above the bottom threads and head - they allow the air to flow around the bolt on it's way into the other port - not designed to stop the hole up but let air around it if that makes any sense - wish I had these heads here today I would take a pic to try and explain it better...

that type of bolt was used on heads that would have ether a small pilot hole or no center head bolt and the shop would drill it out just big enough for the bolt to go in and not have the body of the bolt stick out into the straight wall of the port, as for drawing from the other port that is just not the best way to add air flow it disturbs the flow on the straigt wall side and the amount of air that can efficiently past through is not much and remember that fuel must make it as well but honestly I can't see more than 10% fuel being able to make the curve in and around the bolt so as mentioned above you would need to run the carb fat to mak up for it, now I have also seen head studs that were smaller on top and used a smaller nut so that a smaller hole could be put in the head and allow for more porting without breaking through the head bolt hole.

[69Goat1]

Originally Posted by critter

Johnny. the Butler gaskets are the ones he has done from the original Fitzgerald dies. I think they claim a compressed thickness of .052 but the last set I had measured more like .044 when I pulled them after 2 years of use.

Thanks Chris - I checked the Butler site and they claim a .045 crush so yours were pretty close.

http://www.butlerperformance.com/pro.../jbp_head.html

Has anyone run these with E-heads? Just wondering how well they seal up and what the longevity is? I have only been running the Fel-pro 1016's in the past.

[Ron H]

Wouldn't that slow the velocity in an N/A application?
If you don't have enough port volume in the head available for the displacement you are running, I could see this viable. Or in a boosted combo.
But would this mod have advantages over a properly sized and shaped runner for the intended displacement?

[pro-tour79]

the bottom line is that it is not some trick mod it's just a byproduct of porting a head as far as it can go no different than breaking through the rocker stud hole or the valve cover bolt hole it's just that some of these things are new to Pontiac guys

[Mr. P-Body]

If someone told me it MUST have a sleeve, my next question is: "Why?" Since we have dozens of these engines floating around out there with zero negative issues reported (after the "great mosquito KILL of Orange, Virginia, 2005"), I have to ask, "Why not?"

Jim

[Steve C.]

Brodex sells Port Intruders to allow the active intake port walls to be moved. If interested there are diagrams showing their use in the catalog. Many years ago when the Edelbrock head first came out on the market Jerry Goodale did a prototype and made custom intruders and short head bolts to completly eliminate the head bolt bulge. Not related, but the port sizes ended up very inconstant and flow varied all over the map and I sold them.

(Port Intruders were invented by Kevin Self at Self Racing Heads in OK, 580-924-5866. Note, might be a old number)

[pro-tour79]

a sleeve is not a MUST but a SHOULD, I also have seen many without sleeves but it serves to spread bolt load and avoid pulse interference from the adjacent port, granted this becomes les of an issue at high RPM were time between valve events are very short

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by pro-tour79

a sleeve is not a MUST but a SHOULD, I also have seen many without sleeves but it serves to spread bolt load and avoid pulse interference from the adjacent port, granted this becomes les of an issue at high RPM were time between valve events are very short

When you are ready to get out of the box let me know. I'll be glad to point you in the right direction

[69Goat1]

On another board a fellow who didn't think it would work called Tony at BES and asked about this and said it would not negatively effect the flow whatsoever nor cause any kind of clamping problem.

The pic is the port with a pen light shining through. The dark line is the opening on the left port and is slightly over 1/2" wide.

[rtanner]

this thread is great i will really be glad when you run those heads.

[Tom Vaught]

A LOT of the 4 valve 4 cylinder engines have the siamese port configuration, course they are opening up both intake valves at the same time too. I would think on a NA engine there would be starving of one port. With a blower there would be a LARGE "plenum" area just a couple of inches away from the valve and the valve would like that deal a lot if the car had a trans brake and a roots blower.

Tom V.