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THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor. |
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#21
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JS, I love it too. Great looking car. I always liked the new camaro. Bought my wife a new mustang conv. a few years ago for payment to her for putting up with my 77 build. I was pushing a Camaro hard to her but she has been a mustang girl since day one. Its also a really nice car.
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#22
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#23
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69 Judge, SURVIVOR, Carousel Red/Parchment, RAIII, 4-sp, 63k orig. miles, unrestored, #'s match 65 GTO, SURVIVOR, Tri-Power, 4-sp, 79k orig. miles, Capri Gold, orig. paint, top, interior, #'s match 70 GTO Conv, 400, at, A/C, Atoll Blue/Sandlewood/White top, all #'s match 2015 Challenger R/T Plus, hemi, Sublime |
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#24
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The Following User Says Thank You to mgarblik For This Useful Post: | ||
#25
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They aren't bad looking cars at all imho...I just don't know how anyone can afford a new anything these days
Competition is a good thing... |
#26
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I bought mine 5-1/2 years ago. It had 22k on it. I payed 23k for it. The sticker was 46k. It had 3" exhaust system and an intake filter system. I felt pretty good about it. At the time I coulda bought a used ZL1 for about 35-40. They are insanely high now.
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#27
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Dodge was the first to go, but they went out without having to redesign a chassis for their entire run. Plus numbers dont lie, it kicked the crap out of the Camaro for years and years. I'd say they did damn good. The "Mustang EV" is in name only. They still have the regular Mustang. Both the Mustang and Challenger/Charger are definitely highway warriors. Cars that are comfortable, and pull like a freight train. The Camaro was no slouch, but GM put more emphasis in areas where 99% of people either didn't care, or couldn't benefit from. And me saying GMC was the best looking wasn't by accident. GM has proven to screw up the design of everything they touch. I thought pickup trucks were immune to their incompetence, but the new Silverado looks like ass. Looks like an Autobot. At least the Sierra is sorta acceptable in the looks department. I'll admit I forgot about Cadillac. The only Caddys I see are Escalades, which look pretty good, but I hate how GM went away from the solid rear axle on their full size suvs. The CT4/5 are decent enough looking, but I dont consider them muscle cars.
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"Those poor souls have made the fatal mistake of surrounding us. Now we can fire in any direction" 1970 Trans Am RAIII 4 speed 1971 Trans Am 5.3 LM7 1977 Trans Am W72 Y82 1987 Grand National |
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#28
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Autoblog opinion piece..
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#29
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^^^drool^^^
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#30
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The Challenger is the biggest of the three, but it's also the most useable... I have loved them from day #1. Too bad I could never afford (or justify affording?) one. I did rent them a couple times when visiting my mom in California - and even the R/T-auto (read: 5.7L), I loved the seat time I had in them.
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#31
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When Pontiac G8 went away, it had 18,000 units. It was the one bright mark coming out of Pontiac. A recession killed Pontiac off, and the gov't just pulled the cord on life support. Pissed us all off, royally! GM managers said it would surface as something else. Well that was a closeted project if there ever was one.
I need a service vehicle that gets 25 mpg and can be packed out with tool boxes and ladders. Guess what, every darn brand killed off their mini transit category panel or passenger van. So WHY? The suspension and unibody don't cater to 1000 lbs of battery. The Ford E-transit has a paltry 130 mile range. That doesn't get me to the job let alone back. Yes its better on all performance aspects, until you hit 0 degrees F. THen it's 130 mile range drops around 1/3 to somewhere between 55 mile and 85 mile. If temp hit -20, just stay in. Not worth it being stuck along a shoulder with a transmission that doesn't roll in N. A next gen kid admired my Volt this week. OK, odd. It's a great looking car, but it too lacks enough height for my normal stature, and could not handle my relatives at 6'2". The high rear blocks views, just like Camaro. At least it has rear camera. And space or not, at least I can get to jobs with a small wagon, so that 285,000 mile Subaru I just picked up cheap is my solution to the forced E migration. Tesla and others are in the 2.0 second range on Plaid. Cannot see NASCAR keeping things alive in lower center of gravity race cars running electric equivalent physics numbers. But I do bet the electrics rule on road performance, just because of weight distribution, lowered center of graviy, 4 wheel motors, and handling already being a well tuned science. We can hope that keeps things lively when fuel hits $10 a gallon. Last edited by Stuart; 03-25-2023 at 03:07 PM. |
#32
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#33
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Pontiac started screwing up in the 80s with a lot of their models and continued with it to the end. Models didn't sell because of poor engineering. People faithful to Pontiac had had enough. Same with Oldsmobile. I agree Buick should have gone, but the "older" buyers would have gone nuts with GM canceling them. Now that I'm in the "older" bracket, I still can't see why Buick is still around.
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Gary Get in, ShuT Up, Hang On! Member of the Baltimore Built Brotherhood MY GTO built 4th Week of March 1966 "Crusin' Is Not A Crime" Keep yer stick on the ice. Last edited by Stuart; 03-25-2023 at 03:05 PM. |
#34
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I've been in a ton of newer muscle/pony cars, and it's hard to deny that the performance and driving dynamics are on-point. Not so much with the Mopar stuff unless you're going in a straight line, but all the current offerings are superior on paper to what we grew up with.
The thing that's missisng is the visceral experience of driving a purely analog machine. The first time I really got my head around the difference was late 2000's, I almost bought a Z06. At the time my daily was an autocross-prepped '95 Formula, just shy of 400hp. The Corvette was faster, easier to drive, rode better, and cornered/stopped almost as hard, but it was just boring compared to the modded Firebird. By extention, the '95 Formula felt boring compared to my 2nd-gen car. The new stuff is very capable, but it's hard to feel cool when the doorsill comes up to your chin, the dash is ugly as sin, and computers are keeping the pointy end facing the right direction. |
#35
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If you're only interested in driving in a straight line and having a larger trunk, of course the Challenger will kick the crap out of the Camaro. If I'm looking for a pony car, I'm not worried about trunk space. |
#36
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But a CT5 V Blackwing is an even better family car that will dramatically out handle a Challenger and is nearly as fast in a straight line, if that matters to you. Try driving one and report back. Heck, even try driving the plain-Jane CT5 V and compare it to the RT you rented. |
#37
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I’m going to make a bold prediction and say that this most certainly will not be the last Dodge ICE muscle car, unless they go out of business after trying to go all-EV.
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/197745168@N07/ "There's nothing more unsatisfying than watching an electric car go down the dragstrip." |
#38
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell |
#39
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Personally, I like the Camaro MUCH more than the Challenger or Mustang. I spend lots of time in each of them every week, but would not buy either one. They are ALL equally difficult to see out of but in my opinion the Camaro is the best looking of the three, and the best driving. I do, however, wish that GM would bring back a midsize coupe powered by a V8. Until then, I'll keep my '04 and '06 GTOs.
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#40
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My wife is on her 3rd Camaro, 2010 V6 LS , 2013 SS and a 2017 2SS. The latest one is by far the best. She is 5'3" and absolutely loves everything about her car. She drives it year-round here in the Detroit Metro area. The 6th gen is amazing. The power in the "standard" LT1 is amazing and it handles great. She does not complain about all of the things that seem to bother others. She smiles every time she starts her car, and it growls back. My old boss was the chief engineer on the car, Al Oppenheiser, and they did a great job. GM did a horrible job of advertising the car. Dodge has done a fantastic job on their advertising. Who doesn't smile when they see them tearing around the road or parking lot. If we didn't have the Camaro, I could see us owning a Challenger. I used to have a 1971 R/T and still have fond memories of it.
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