[zeebo]

i can understand, however, why take a chance on newer oil not having enough zinc for our older flat tappet cars? i run valvoline conventional 10w30 or formula shell 10w30 with a 4oz bottle of zddp additive just to be safe..cant hurt and may save a virgin 45 yr old motor from wiping a cam lobe, as they dont get driven much.

[John62]

I think the bigger question here is, does adding a product like ZDDPlus hurt anything. It may be one of them cases where its better to be safe then sorry. Since it is only about $10 for most of us once or twice a year play it safe. As long as having to much does not hurt anything. The second part of the question was about using syn. oil. I believe it was discussed a while back and the answer was it was better not to use it as it is not compatible with older gaskets and could seep thru and create new leaks.

[propuckstopper]

Originally Posted by John62

I think the bigger question here is, does adding a product like ZDDPlus hurt anything. It may be one of them cases where its better to be safe then sorry. Since it is only about $10 for most of us once or twice a year play it safe. As long as having to much does not hurt anything. The second part of the question was about using syn. oil. I believe it was discussed a while back and the answer was it was better not to use it as it is not compatible with older gaskets and could seep thru and create new leaks.

I cannot tell you if a bottle of ZDDP hurts anything, as I am not a tribologist.

But my question remains: why mix when you do not have to?

There are plenty of "old" formulas out there from Penn, Amsoil, Gibbs, etc.

In my old Pontiacs, I change the oils once per year, going into storage. That means I have 11 months to order a product that was properly engineered and formulated by a guy that knows far more about engine oil than I do.

Engine oil debates are in every forum, everywhere. It is a subject that is way overthought.

Buy the right bottle, and pour it right in.

[geeteeohguy]

Too much ZDDP can be counter-productive. Shell Rotella or Chevron DELO has the same amount of ZDDP that regular engine oils had when these old cars were new. Been running Rotella in all my old cars for years and years and tens of thousands of miles. Will continue to do so. Am always amazed by the guys who run race spec oil (which has no additive package for street use and is meant to be dumped after an event), particularly in thick, 20/50 viscosities. 20/50 is a good race weight for a loose race engine. Or a worn out street engine. A properly built Pontiac should be run on 10/30 or perhaps 15/40 at the most in hot climates. Using race oil in a street car is a mis-informed choice. X2 on new cam failures being poor quality parts. Never had an issue with USA made or OEM parts. Always seems to be the 'new and improved' stuff taking a dump in about 30 minutes of run time. My two Pontiac engines in my two Pontiacs have been together for 35 and 28 years respectively, and haven't had any oil related issues. Your mileage may vary.

[dataway]

Name one current manufactured cam that doesn't use a Chinese made core. (cause I'd like to find one)

Vavoline race oil appears to have very similar additives to a street oil ... with more zinc.

Wouldn't using race oil in a street engine have the same validity of using diesel oil in a gas engine?

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Too much ZDDP can be counter-productive. Shell Rotella or Chevron DELO has the same amount of ZDDP that regular engine oils had when these old cars were new. Been running Rotella in all my old cars for years and years and tens of thousands of miles. Will continue to do so. Am always amazed by the guys who run race spec oil (which has no additive package for street use and is meant to be dumped after an event), particularly in thick, 20/50 viscosities. 20/50 is a good race weight for a loose race engine. Or a worn out street engine. A properly built Pontiac should be run on 10/30 or perhaps 15/40 at the most in hot climates. Using race oil in a street car is a mis-informed choice. X2 on new cam failures being poor quality parts. Never had an issue with USA made or OEM parts. Always seems to be the 'new and improved' stuff taking a dump in about 30 minutes of run time. My two Pontiac engines in my two Pontiacs have been together for 35 and 28 years respectively, and haven't had any oil related issues. Your mileage may vary.

Chinese junk!! Most of the repro parts are made overseas and the fit, finish and durability has suffered compared to factory GM parts. A metallurgist weighed in on a thread here a few years ago and said most of the camshafts today are made overseas. Because of this, the metal is not as hard as the original factory units and this will cause premature wear especially on the flat tappet cams. It seems that is the case from what I'm reading here.

[propuckstopper]

Wouldn't using race oil in a street engine have the same validity of using diesel oil in a gas engine?[/QUOTE]

No. Not even close. Rotella carries many approval ratings and can also be used in motorcycles for wet clutch use.

Rotella is a highly-respected and quality product. However, since they went up to the CJ-4 rating, there is a rumor that the ZDDP levels have been reduced. I do not know this for sure, but that is what many have said.

[Overkillphil]

It's true. It was reduced some time ago (after diesels got Cats etc.). I've been buying CI 4 and CI 4+ for my older diesels due to the reduction but I have to order it as it's not "on the shelf". I can't remember if Rotella is dual rated (SI & CI) or just CI, but that's another thing to look for if one feels compelled to run diesel oil in a gasser.

[geeteeohguy]

Yes, the ZDDP in Rotella has been reduced. To about 1200-1300 ppm ZDDP, which is equivalent to original fill back in the day. No worries. Dataway: racing oil does not have the addiitve package to combat corrosion, moisture, and acids that form in a normally operated street driven engine. Diesel-spec oil has all of these additives. Racing oil is meant for racing, not stop and go driving, and not for extended use in traffic conditions. It is formulated for what it does: protect racing engines during severe use for short periods between oil changes. Not what you want in your crankcase for a street driven car for any length of time.

[dataway]

Wonder about a mix .... couple quarts of the Valvoline VR1 and a few quarts of street oil. Might be the best of both words.

I typically use Mobil 1 in street bikes making more than 150hp/liter ... don't have HFT cams of course ...but it does circulate in the gearbox which has some very high metal/metal pressure areas, very high. And wear has never seemed to be a problem.

I can't find a single camshaft manufacturer that identifies the source of their cam cores ... that blows.

[70KGOLD]

Rotella in one of my engines now. No issues.

[GRX]

STP oil treatment still has ZDDP listed on the label. A bottle with each oil change works for me. Though I have not looked at the MSDS sheets in a while so the levels may have been reduced.

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

So the diesels can survive because the physical geometry of the diesel engine parts is different vs the typical Pontiac engine. Diesel parts are larger, have more bearing surface area, etc. So a blanket statement comparing a diesel engine to a gasoline engine might not be valid in every case.

Tom V.

Good point. Speaking as one who machined & built industrial diesels for a time, there are other aspects to consider as well. Those engines are not generally required to run high RPMs. So along those lines, they do not require such stout valve springs. Therefore less pressure at the camshaft. Then there is the sooty oil factor. Carbon can make a good lubricant. One reason diesel oils have special additives to keep it in suspension.

One of the more common engines I worked with was the twin turbo CAT 3408 to be used as power units. We ran them in the dyno room for two days straight at the conditions they were destined for when installed before shipping out to the customer. 2,000 RPM making 2,000 horses. Did not take long at all for the oil to turn black.

[Grand73Am]

Valvoline VR-1 is not just for racing. It's perfectly fine and good to use for street engines, especially with flat tappet cams. Says so right on their website. Lots of people running it with success. Just use it and change it at reasonable intervals as usual. Quote:

Valvoline™ VR1 Racing Oil's high zinc provides race-level protection for high performance engines on the race track and is compatible with passenger vehicles. Additional product benefits include:
•High zinc/phosphorus for anti-wear protection, including push-rod and flat tappet applications
•Formulated to increase horsepower
•Enhanced anti-foam system protects engine during extreme stress
•Recommended for engines burning gasoline and full or partial alcohol fuels

[geeteeohguy]

Nothing mentioned about anti-corrosion properties and anti-oxidation properties. Both required for a street car. In fact, I don't see any of the bullet points showing that it's for a street driven car used regularly.

[73T/A]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Nothing mentioned about anti-corrosion properties and anti-oxidation properties. Both required for a street car. In fact, I don't see any of the bullet points showing that it's for a street driven car used regularly.

Valvoline VR1 racing oil is API SN rated which is the latest oil rating for street vehicles.The (PIF) product information sheet on Valvoline's site states:for use in any car,light truck,van or SUV were API SN oil is recommended.I have been using Valvoline VR1 for years with no problem.Valvoline also carries(or did) a Non Street legal race oil that did not have the detergents in it or the Same APi rating.

[SMW]

If you use oil with the SAE starburst on the bottle it has to pass this test. If it passes this test it will be good enough for your car.

http://www.intertek.com/automotive/l...sequence-iiig/

[SMW]

I forgot about the Sequence IVa oil test. It uses an over head cam engine but, it is still metal rubbing on cam lobes. To get that starburst on the bottle the oil has to pass both of these tests, and more. So, when an oil can pass both of these tests how can somebody still believe the lack of zinc in the oil is the problem of losing a cam lobe?
http://www.intertek.com/automotive/l.../sequence-iva/

[wheneaglesfly]

I am familiar with 540 Rats oil tests on another small Forum.
I call it BS.

The entire Hotrod and Race market is flooded with China made crap.
Chitty iron and steel used. Its really our recycled crap from decades.

I drive an old 1994 GMC K1500 Suburban 4X4 daily for the last 4 years.
I have. 430,000 miles on he original engine now.
It has the SBC 350 TBI Engine 350ci with a factory Flat Tappet Hydraulic camshaft and lifters.
Not edorsing oils but my Favorite is Castrol GTX.
Started of with 10w30 Conventional Dino GTX.
Then switched to Castrol Edge10w30 Full synthetic with Titanium .
Recent I have tried out GTX High Mileage 10w30 Synthetic blend.
No Flat cam issues ever.

[wheneaglesfly]

I have never used a Zinc additive in my old K1500 Suburban .
In my Pontiacs Yes.
Just poured in for Peace of Mind.

[dataway]

I'd still like to know if anyone can identify any modern camshaft manufacturer that uses US made cores. Heck, I'd even go with Taiwanese cores as I've seen some decent parts come from there. Or even Mexican cores. Anybody?

Can't they hardweld up old cams and regrind them?